Save the Rainforest - Keep "it's a small world" a classic.

[mrfantasmic]

Originally Posted by HBG2

Is this a case of "all viewpoints are valid" nonsense? Some interpretations are simply wrong, and they are therefore less valid than more accurate interpretations. This MCer is still waiting for a serious counterproposal to his oft-posted interpretation: the IASW has no "characters" because it stresses commonality over individuality. There is no possible way to add "characters" without diminishing its intended statement.

Yep, I actually have the testicular diameter to claim that this analysis is the truth about IASW.

And that is why you will never be satisfied.

[HBG2]

If "satisfied" = "content with mediocrity," you're right.

[lazyboy97O]

Originally Posted by mrfantasmic

And that is why you will never be satisfied.

Then why not humor all us as and do so.

[mrfantasmic]

Originally Posted by HBG2

If "satisfied" = "content with mediocrity," you're right.

*headdesk*

[ZeekSlider]

See, this is why I tend to like the entertainment and offerings from the half-owned Tokyo Disney Resort.

Granted the Japanese fans are more critical of the attractions and events that you DLR fans are with the California property, but still. They were able to make HSM music barible in one of the parade offerings even though it was a blatent forced marketing for a franchise that probably has no resinating impact on the Japanese culture given how different our educational systems are.

And if something sucks there? The guest just stay quiet and then leave.

[merlinjones]

>>And that is why you will never be satisfied.<<

The funny thing about this comment is... in the cases of it's a small world, Pirates of the Caribbean, Swiss Family Treehouse, Tom Sawyer Island, Golden Horseshoe Revue, Tahitian Terrace, Pirate Ship and Skyway, at least, everyone was completely satisfied before they decided to change things (except for deferred maintenence issues).

The successful Tiki Room rehab is an example of things done right.

If it ain't broke, especially artistically, don't fix it.

[flynnibus]

yeah... spend millions and still have pathetic attendance numbers. Perfect strategy.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

yeah... spend millions and still have pathetic attendance numbers. Perfect strategy.

What are you talking about? I see more people at Tiki Room than I ever have my entire life! It's amazing. I even go on it way more often now that it's cleaned up.

[Matterhorn Boy]

Originally Posted by merlinjones

>>And that is why you will never be satisfied.<<

The funny thing about this comment is... in the cases of it's a small world, Pirates of the Caribbean, Swiss Family Treehouse, Tom Sawyer Island, Golden Horseshoe Revue, Tahitian Terrace, Pirate Ship and Skyway, at least, everyone was completely satisfied before they decided to change things (except for deferred maintenence issues).

The successful Tiki Room rehab is an example of things done right.

If it ain't broke, especially artistically, don't fix it.

The sad thing about this whole thing is, is that the actual feedback and public perception that feeds the need to go through with bad ideas like this Small World refurb (And similar recent "harmless" refurbs as well) tells Disney that the combination of artistic expression, discovery and integration with actual history and human culture is no longer what the public desires in a theme park attraction. Instead they want cheap thrills and 3-D glasses, recognizable characters and movie tie-in's and none of that haugty intellectual stuff, please. Can we have a few fart jokes thrown in as well?

Surely these people have always existed, and in the past they've flocked to various amusements like Carnivals and lately Six Flags and Knotts with the rest of the fold and Walt was happy not to appeal to them. His park simply wasn't meant for them. It was unabashedly antithetical to the very idea of the amusement park.

But the Disney Corporation of today is attempting to court this demographic by slowly transforming the park per their wishes, and with success. Take out or "improve" all of those imaginitive attractions from the 60's. They're old hat now. Give us Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blast and please add Johnny Depp and his Pirate friends to that boring cowboy and pioneer portion of the park. Tease the baby boomers who grew up with the enchanting Submarine Voyage of old and crush their dreams with a scavenger hunt for a cartoon talking fish. Tear the antiquated visions of optimism in Tomorrowland down and replace them with nothing but bronze paint and moving junk.

Things like these additions to Small World seem petty, miniscule, and appropritately...small, but they're one tiny example of the needless and bad changes that have happened in the park over the last two decades. The slow and painful degredation of theme, character and imaginitive design the park is supposed to stand for that many here have commented on the last few months.

I understand many are adopting a "wait and see" approach. Unfortunately, when you wait and see, and you don't like it, you're stuck with it for an immeasurable ammount of time. Now is the time to make our wishes heard, not later. I'd prefer the Small World I grew up with not be destroyed and muddied by the inclusion of corportate marketing symbols. And I don't need to "see" any of these changes to know I don't want them.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy

The sad thing about this whole thing is, is that the actual feedback and public perception that feeds the need to go through with bad ideas like this Small World refurb (And similar recent "harmless" refurbs as well) tells Disney that the combination of artistic expression, discovery and integration with actual history and human culture is no longer what the public desires in a theme park attraction. Instead they want cheap thrills and 3-D glasses, recognizable characters and movie tie-in's and none of that haugty intellectual stuff, please. Can we have a few fart jokes thrown in as well?

Surely these people have always existed, and in the past they've flocked to various amusements like Carnivals and lately Six Flags and Knotts with the rest of the fold and Walt was happy not to appeal to them. His park simply wasn't meant for them. It was unabashedly antithetical to the very idea of the amusement park.

But the Disney Corporation of today is attempting to court this demographic by slowly transforming the park per their wishes, and with success. Take out or "improve" all of those imaginitive attractions from the 60's. They're old hat now. Give us Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blast and please add Johnny Depp and his Pirate friends to that boring cowboy and pioneer portion of the park. Tease the baby boomers who grew up with the enchanting Submarine Voyage of old and crush their dreams with a scavenger hunt for a cartoon talking fish. Tear the antiquated visions of optimism in Tomorrowland down and replace them with nothing but bronze paint and moving junk.

Things like these additions to Small World seem petty, miniscule, and appropritately...small, but they're one tiny example of the needless and bad changes that have happened in the park over the last two decades. The slow and painful degredation of theme, character and imaginitive design the park is supposed to stand for that many here have commented on the last few months.

I understand many are adopting a "wait and see" approach. Unfortunately, when you wait and see, and you don't like it, you're stuck with it for an immeasurable ammount of time. Now is the time to make our wishes heard, not later. I'd prefer the Small World I grew up with not be destroyed and muddied by the inclusion of corportate marketing symbols. And I don't need to "see" any of these changes to know I don't want them.

I agree with you.

I think what the executives in charge don't realize is that maybe the guests would still come if they actually done something artistic and creative. Just because attendance at the old subs died off doesn't mean the audience isn't interested anymore. It just means that they were running the thing into the ground and not giving us something new to see. Walt realized this with the Jungle Cruise and updated it accordingly. The subs opened in 1959! Wow, that's a long time to go isn't it?

So the submarines have been closed for a decade and they reopen it. Of course everyone's going to want to go on it again! Does it mean that they have succeeded with the new theme? It really is hard to judge. People won't flat out say that it sucked when it clearly didn't. But if Disney asked everyone if it bothered them that Finding Nemo was in Tomorrowland, I'm curious to see that result comes out to be. I personally think that they did a decent job in creating an entertaining attraction, but I believe they failed in creating something that really inspires you into exploring the depths of the sea.

unfortunately, the success of Pirates have gave them the ego boost they need to say "trust us, we know what we're doing". But the ride was still successful even without those additions. They could have added the extra powerful cannonballs and people would have come and enjoyed it.

The track record is also something that has been rather random. How can they say that they scored well with Pirates and Subs when they failed with new Tomorrowland and DCA? Updating something old isn't hard. It's the coming up with something new that is and they haven't been doing that well in that regard lately.

And I've seen the dolls that they're putting in. No thank you! Spend the money taking what's left of the Cosmic Waves out of Tomorrowland.

[ZeekSlider]

No, I think they are too busy spending their money on this and maybe this.

Originally Posted by Coheteboy

Updating something old isn't hard. It's the coming up with something new that is and they haven't been doing that well in that regard lately.

*points to DisneySea* That seems like something new, complete with new technology as far as practical stage effects for Dark Rides and even innovations on storytelling such as the latest motion theatre upgrades in rides like StormRider or trackless ride vehicles like Aquatopia.

[Malawi Missonary]

Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy

The sad thing about this whole thing is, is that the actual feedback and public perception that feeds the need to go through with bad ideas like this Small World refurb (And similar recent "harmless" refurbs as well) tells Disney that the combination of artistic expression, discovery and integration with actual history and human culture is no longer what the public desires in a theme park attraction. Instead they want cheap thrills and 3-D glasses, recognizable characters and movie tie-in's and none of that haugty intellectual stuff, please. Can we have a few fart jokes thrown in as well?

Surely these people have always existed, and in the past they've flocked to various amusements like Carnivals and lately Six Flags and Knotts with the rest of the fold and Walt was happy not to appeal to them. His park simply wasn't meant for them. It was unabashedly antithetical to the very idea of the amusement park.

But the Disney Corporation of today is attempting to court this demographic by slowly transforming the park per their wishes, and with success. Take out or "improve" all of those imaginitive attractions from the 60's. They're old hat now. Give us Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blast and please add Johnny Depp and his Pirate friends to that boring cowboy and pioneer portion of the park. Tease the baby boomers who grew up with the enchanting Submarine Voyage of old and crush their dreams with a scavenger hunt for a cartoon talking fish. Tear the antiquated visions of optimism in Tomorrowland down and replace them with nothing but bronze paint and moving junk.

Things like these additions to Small World seem petty, miniscule, and appropritately...small, but they're one tiny example of the needless and bad changes that have happened in the park over the last two decades. The slow and painful degredation of theme, character and imaginitive design the park is supposed to stand for that many here have commented on the last few months.

I understand many are adopting a "wait and see" approach. Unfortunately, when you wait and see, and you don't like it, you're stuck with it for an immeasurable ammount of time. Now is the time to make our wishes heard, not later. I'd prefer the Small World I grew up with not be destroyed and muddied by the inclusion of corportate marketing symbols. And I don't need to "see" any of these changes to know I don't want them.

Articulate, intelligent and well thought out post. Thank you.

[lazyboy97O]

Originally Posted by ZeekSlider

*points to DisneySea* That seems like something new, complete with new technology as far as practical stage effects for Dark Rides and even innovations on storytelling such as the latest motion theatre upgrades in rides like StormRider or trackless ride vehicles like Aquatopia.

Those guys were let go...

[ZeekSlider]

Guess that means the states will never see Small World size AA with the articulation of The Timekeeper or exciting events that help cool off guests in the summer heat like Cool The Heat (despite the Pixar Play Parade being a modest start of said trend and the complaints about how annoying the water spraying is to guests).

Oh well, guess that means DLR and WDW will never be the crown jewels of the theme park division as they should have been all this time.

[MrLiver]

Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy

Things like these additions to Small World seem petty, miniscule, and appropritately...small, but they're one tiny example of the needless and bad changes that have happened in the park over the last two decades.

It's not bad - it's change. The older you get the more likely you are to hate change of any kind. It's just the way of the world.

As I have said before, I see the folks on here complaining about the changes in the park just as I look back on those folks who complained that ragtime music was causing the degradation of American culture.

Change happens.