Save the Rainforest - Keep "it's a small world" a classic.

[flynnibus]

just because its open though doesn't mean its meeting expectations - another possibility is that it's more cost effective and overall beneficial to continue running vs yanking it.

If an attraction is relatively affordable to keep running and doesn't pose a burden, even if they want to replace it they'd probably keep it running. Purely from a guest satisifcation point. Guests don't like seeing closed attractions.

Plus - its gotta REALLY stink to have Disney eat the costs they sunk into it up front... rather then getting some mileage out of it. They can't get a refund - so they let it ride for awhile rather then increasing their loses even further. The smaller, less significant the attraction, the less the urgency to yank a stinker.

Its a painful pill to swallow to turn around and admit millions of dollars were a waste. They'd have to let it run for awhile (even if not liked) to save face and costs.

In short... just being open could simply mean 'lesser of evils'.

[Datameister]

Any wait at all is an indication that the demand for the ride is surpassing the supply.

That's...true, in the most extremely liberal sense of the word. But Pooh is not an extremely high-capacity attraction, which means that there really "should" be a line, even though it's of course nice for the guests when there's not. From my personal experience, there's almost never a wait for Pooh. I considered riding it on Saturday, a moderately busy day, simply because there was no one in line, and it'd be a good laugh.

Every ride has fluctuations in demand caused by parades, entertainment, meal periods and weather. Ever ride Pirates during Fantasmic? Splash Mountain on a rainy day? Snow White and Pinocchio after opening? It's easy to find attractions sending out empty ride vehicles.

That, however, is certainly true.

I will say what I have said many times before: the fact that Pooh is still open should be indication enough that the attraction is drawing enough people and meeting expectations.

That statement doesn't take into account the fact that it's expensive to demolish, remove, refurb, or rebuild an attraction. Even closing it without replacement can be damaging. So an attraction can be underperforming for a while before it's actually removed, simply because the cost of construction needs to be justified and time is needed to accumulate the necessary money for the removal. Not trying to say Pooh is on the chopping block, unfortunately, but keep in mind that it's pretty rare for attractions to be totally removed within their first decade of life, at least these days.

[MrLiver]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Its a painful pill to swallow to turn around and admit millions of dollars were a waste. They'd have to let it run for awhile (even if not liked) to save face and costs.

In short... just being open could simply mean 'lesser of evils'.

I've thought a lot about that, but that is of course one of the benefits of having a simple dark ride - it's fairly cheap to operate.

Look at a ride on the other side of the coin: The Rocket Rods. There was a ride where the demand was really high, the ride had 90 minute waits, but it had to be shut down because it was just costing way too much money to keep running. That ride only lasted 2 years due to the cost of keeping it open. I don't think that Disney would have any problems closing a ride and leaving it empty if the ride was costing them more money than it was worth.

Surely there has to be a spreadsheet somewhere that says Pooh needs to have X number of visitors to support Y amount of cost to operate. If the ride is still open then I would assume that it's meeting that qualification.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by MrLiver

I've thought a lot about that, but that is of course one of the benefits of having a simple dark ride - it's fairly cheap to operate.

Look at a ride on the other side of the coin: The Rocket Rods. There was a ride where the demand was really high, the ride had 90 minute waits, but it had to be shut down because it was just costing way too much money to keep running. That ride only lasted 2 years due to the cost of keeping it open. I don't think that Disney would have any problems closing a ride and leaving it empty if the ride was costing them more money than it was worth.

Surely there has to be a spreadsheet somewhere that says Pooh needs to have X number of visitors to support Y amount of cost to operate. If the ride is still open then I would assume that it's meeting that qualification.

You make a fair contrast to Rocket Rods but you're also not giving us the other half of the coin, which is that it cost too much to run because they didn't allocate the proper amount of funding to make it right to begin with, therefore, it constantly broke down.

Closing Pooh so soon would be a PR nightmare to explain to the press and public, no matter how badly people think of the attraction. Leaving it open means that your day pass has that much more value on it.



I often like to think whether or not Rocket Rods had a long line because it constantly broke down, was new and people just wanted to do it at least once, or if it was because people genuinely loved it and wanted to do it again. I think it's mostly a combination of the first two reasons.

Moral of the story: spend money to make money. Rocket Rods and Pooh and DCA are examples of how they didn't spend enough to make something outstanding.

[animagusurreal]

Originally Posted by Coheteboy

You make a fair contrast to Rocket Rods but you're also not giving us the other half of the coin, which is that it cost too much to run because they didn't allocate the proper amount of funding to make it right to begin with, therefore, it constantly broke down.

Closing Pooh so soon would be a PR nightmare to explain to the press and public, no matter how badly people think of the attraction. Leaving it open means that your day pass has that much more value on it.



I often like to think whether or not Rocket Rods had a long line because it constantly broke down, was new and people just wanted to do it at least once, or if it was because people genuinely loved it and wanted to do it again. I think it's mostly a combination of the first two reasons.

Moral of the story: spend money to make money. Rocket Rods and Pooh and DCA are examples of how they didn't spend enough to make something outstanding.

Amen! This is pretty much my thinking exactly!

[Walt Jr.]

Straight from savethesmallworld.com from a few days ago!

Its official, New Guinea and the Rain Forest are being replaced by America. Don’t expect to see a press release from Disney any time soon. They are still perplexed at the negative press and reaction generated by the news of adding Disney “toys” to Walt Disney's original small world attraction. There will be no public fanfare or press released about this from the mouse house. The plan is to open the attraction with the new scene and with hopes it will change the minds of doubters once they see it. It not, the view is it will be done and installed regardless of how it is received. The model of the new America section shows it will take up the entire room where the rain forest and New Guinea are now located. The rain forest is being down sized and relocated within the attraction due to all the negative publicity its removal has generated. New Guinea and its Mary Blair huts however are a different story, they are now part of Yesterdayland. Down at Disneyland the room is cleared and construction on the new scene is well underway.

It is truly a sad day for fans of the original attraction.

I'm sorry but it is time to send in enough letters to knock Disney off of their office chairs!!


Who is with me!!!

[patattack]

I have not been keeping up on this thread but from what I knew I thought the "America section" was just a rumor and was not coming to anaheim!

So I guess tomorrow I will be making letters to send.

[DisneyMouse]

Originally Posted by Walt Jr.

Straight from savethesmallworld.com from a few days ago!



I'm sorry but it is time to send in enough letters to knock Disney off of their office chairs!!


Who is with me!!!

If you want to knock them off their office chairs buy a whole lot of stock (the largest stock holder only has 5% and that's Steve Jobs), and then start talking; Disney works just like any other company, by stocks.

[The International]

Coheteboy, can you tell me where, exactly, your complete hatred of Pooh comes from? It's a charming ride in a quiet section of the park.

[animagusurreal]

^

I know you asked him and not me, but I'm going to answer anyway . For me, it's the lack of detail, the emphasis on characters over environment (except in the floody place, which is the best scene IMHO), the stiffness/un-bounciness of Tigger, and the Heffalumps and Woozles scene, which should be the climax of the ride, just doesn't do it for me .

[dland_lover]

They're WHAT?!?!?!?



Darn the people who think this is a good idea!!

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by Walt Jr.

Straight from savethesmallworld.com from a few days ago!



I'm sorry but it is time to send in enough letters to knock Disney off of their office chairs!!


Who is with me!!!

I'm perplexed that the WDI creative team involved actually had to fight to push through the America scene even after all the flak. Of course, moving the Rain Forrest in a way makes sense in that it appeared to be in it's current location as an afterthought. Relocating portions to more relevant locations wouldn't hurt. It's just the addition of the Disney characters that are the REAL issue.

[Walt Jr.]

I'm wondering if someone on these boards could create an online petition to stop Disney from doing this to ISAW. That way we could reach more people.


Master Gracey, could you do this for us???

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Walt Jr.

I'm wondering if someone on these boards could create an online petition to stop Disney from doing this to ISAW. That way we could reach more people.


Master Gracey, could you do this for us???

Online petitions are ineffective. If an online petition would have been a valid vehicle to have the fan community's voice heard, I would have made one from the start. But it isn't. The best option is to just write letters and let your voice be heard directly, with your signature signed by hand. Then it's personal, and it shows that there really are people who care.


I would like to point out that the post that you posted was an anonymous comment left by a visitor of the SavetheSmallWorld.com blog. It was not a message from SavetheSmallWorld.com and has not been confirmed as official by Disney or been recently reported on by any of the reliable rumor mills online.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by The International

Coheteboy, can you tell me where, exactly, your complete hatred of Pooh comes from? It's a charming ride in a quiet section of the park.

Complete hatred is a bit of an overstatement but I can see how my ramblings on this board can translate into that. I'll try to explain..


I love Pooh. I watched the cartoons growing up. I think it's a great part of the Disney family. I'm not, however, a big fan of what they've done to him in recent years, making the entire Pooh family a dumbdowned franchise for preschoolers. The target of the original Pooh cartoons was not for preschoolers but for the masses. I watch the original cartoons even still with delight and joy. My mom wasn't a kid when Pooh cartoons came out and she loves the character also.

The ride at Disneyland, being the 3rd version of a Pooh attraction built, feels as if it was intended for preschoolers. Was it their purpose? Perhaps it was, and if so, then shame on them. Were the Fantasyland dark-rides intended for preschoolers? Or were they intended to entertain the entire family?

I think there's a clear difference, even if most people think of it the same. Many parents with children feel that if the kid is happy, then they are too. Me, I feel that both children AND parent should be delighted together for different reasons that stem from the same thing.

I've been on the Florida version of the Pooh ride and love it. It's a great adaptation of the original cartoon stories. It feels complete because there's a beginning, middle, and end.

Disneyland's is just a mish mash of a lot of things that really don't seem to go together. It's sunny and rainy in the same sequence. We follow bouncing Tigger into Pooh dreaming. And then it's Pooh's birthday and Eeyore is missing. A lot of these same elements are in Florida but it's cut very differently so that it tells more of a story. The elements are also in Japan's, but that's an E-Ticket wonder.


My complete hatred is mostly just frustration that they gave us version 3 of the ride and it's worse than the 2 that came before it. Is it as horrible as I make it out to be? Definitely not, but it's kind of a waste of time and it really sucks because Pooh is a HUGE money maker for the company. I think it deserves to be at least as good as Florida's if not better.



And sorry that took so long to flesh out. I know nobody wants to read that as it's not even on topic.

It's too bad about America scene in Small World but at least the rainforest is staying in SOME form. I think that all the reactions have at least done that much. That's good.