View Poll Results: Should Tomorrowland be Utopian or Romantic?

Voters
66. You may not vote on this poll
  • Utopian

    40 60.61%
  • Romantic

    26 39.39%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 70
  1. #31

    • Picturing the Magic
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    1,120

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    do u mean utopian or dystopian instead? I have to go with utopian because its I go to disneyland, in some way, to get away from the possibilites of fear and endangerment of the normal world; And hopefully the world of tomorrow offers such a utopian society


    (Sign up and search "Splashmoun10")


    I use a Nikon D50 with a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens and a Zoom-Nikkor 70-300m f/4-f/5.6 G

    Check out my latest TR (August 4th---August 11th) at Disneyworld!

    Check out my latest TR (January 4th) at Disneyland!

  2. #32

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    I have to go with utopian because its I go to disneyland, in some way, to get away from the possibilites of fear and endangerment of the normal world
    Which is exactly why we go to Disneyland to be shot at by pirates, help blow up the Death Star, narrowly escape fiery doom in an Indian temple, get scared by a bunch of retired ghosts, escape from evil witches, and careen through an abandoned mine in a bewitched train, right? Because we want to avoid fear and danger, right?


  3. #33

    • YOU KNOW IT! YEAH!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,386

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Which is exactly why we go to Disneyland to be shot at by pirates, help blow up the Death Star, narrowly escape fiery doom in an Indian temple, get scared by a bunch of retired ghosts, escape from evil witches, and careen through an abandoned mine in a bewitched train, right? Because we want to avoid fear and danger, right?

    MWAhAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


    SUPPORT THE CMs


    For me, Tomorrow is everyday...wait...what?

  4. #34

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Riverside Ca
    Posts
    1,445

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Utopian bores me. Drama derives from conflict, and in a Utopia, all major conflicts have solutions.

    Adventureland gives us a fictionalized version of the uncharted worlds, New Orleans Square offers an exageration upon the real place and brings much folklore and fiction into the land, Frontierland is not a replica of the old west, it is Disney's romantic version of it. If we have romantic versions of NOS, Frontierland, and adventure, why have a realistic and utopian Tommorowland? To fit with the rest of the park, and to be more entertaining to park guests, Tommorowland should be a romantic view of the future.

    Also, a romantic view of the future endures much less change than versions of utopias. Yes, we could have a TL devoted to going green and solving energy issues. Not only is it hard to make such theming entertaining and awe inspiring, it all becomes outdated once solutions begin to be found. Wheras colonizing distant planets, aliens, androids, and galactic friction are much further away from being reality and are easily molded into attractions and theming.

    Yes, they can make TL look like the Utopia from Demolition Man with glass architecture, well-manicured landscaping, and fancy phone booths; but that doesn't sound too interesting to me. Perfection has no place in storytelling and Disneyland's success is based off of great storytelling.

  5. #35

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    278

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    - Anatole
    Last edited by Anatole69; 04-01-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  6. #36

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    278

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    - Anatole
    Last edited by Anatole69; 04-01-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  7. #37

    • YOU KNOW IT! YEAH!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,386

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anatole69 View Post
    I think the better choices would be Utopian Vs. Dystopian, or Romantic Vs. Postmodern.

    Romanticiscm and Utopianism are pretty similar, no matter how you slice it.

    - Anatole
    ooooooh, no wonder theres a mini debate about it! hahaha if thats the case i go with my original choice BLADERUNNER...AKA: DYSTOPIA!


    SUPPORT THE CMs


    For me, Tomorrow is everyday...wait...what?

  8. #38

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Professortango's got it.


  9. #39

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    611

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anatole69 View Post
    I think the better choices would be Utopian Vs. Dystopian, or Romantic Vs. Postmodern.

    Romanticiscm and Utopianism are pretty similar, no matter how you slice it.

    - Anatole

    I disagree, I feel there are key differences between Utopianism and Romantisicm. I explained myself in my prior posts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Professortango
    Utopian bores me. Drama derives from conflict, and in a Utopia, all major conflicts have solutions.

    Adventureland gives us a fictionalized version of the uncharted worlds, New Orleans Square offers an exageration upon the real place and brings much folklore and fiction into the land, Frontierland is not a replica of the old west, it is Disney's romantic version of it. If we have romantic versions of NOS, Frontierland, and adventure, why have a realistic and utopian Tommorowland? To fit with the rest of the park, and to be more entertaining to park guests, Tommorowland should be a romantic view of the future.

    Also, a romantic view of the future endures much less change than versions of utopias. Yes, we could have a TL devoted to going green and solving energy issues. Not only is it hard to make such theming entertaining and awe inspiring, it all becomes outdated once solutions begin to be found. Wheras colonizing distant planets, aliens, androids, and galactic friction are much further away from being reality and are easily molded into attractions and theming.

    Yes, they can make TL look like the Utopia from Demolition Man with glass architecture, well-manicured landscaping, and fancy phone booths; but that doesn't sound too interesting to me. Perfection has no place in storytelling and Disneyland's success is based off of great storytelling.

    I agree completely.

  10. #40

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    4,084

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    I don't see how these specific views are mutually exclusive. There can be overlap.

    Even if it is a fantasy, the optimistic futurism of Walt Disney was utopian in execution and destination, but acknowledged the bravery and danger for man that takes us there. Unfortunately, Walt's trust of corporate America to provide for the people is the biggest fantasy. Still, it is appealing.

    What we don't need at Disneyland is Hollywood's bleak, apocalyptic view of the future as seen in Blade Runner, Alien, Tomorrowland '98, etc.

    That's defeatist. We need hope. We need glorious ultramodern design and utopian fantasy. I still want to be The Jetsons.

  11. #41

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
    To romanticize something is to portray it in the style of a medieval romance. These were tales of knightly deeds. The good AND the bad were exaggerated in these tales. They were colorful, dramatic, and filled with danger.

    It is this sense of heightened excitement that is the core of the word "romantic." It does NOT mean happy smiley face time.
    The thing about Utopians in literature... they usually don't last long! I enjoy reading Utopian works, or if you will Romantic works that mimic Utopian works for at least half the book only to throw that danger back in at a later time. Not sure how you would classify Camelot then since it was considered a Utopian. The point is that Utopian is born specifically from Romantic, because Utopian can not exist without the removal of flaws, and that is what Romantic does. The problem with this debate is. If you remove too many flaws people will see it as Utopian, even if there are some flaws left. If you do not remove enough flaws people will see it as Realistic and not notice the Romantic highlights. IMO people fail to notice the Romantic highlights in the rest of Disneyland as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    Ok, English major here.

    Has anyone ever read Thomas Moore's Utopia?

    The society in that novel was perfect, uneventful and boring. It was a perfect society with nothing wrong. While that might be romantic in a sense; I understand what the OP meant by the word.

    The OP meant romantic as its defined by the Websters online dictionary (specifically definitinos 4-6)
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Romantic

    The definition of Utopian can be found here:
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Utopian
    I understood what he was referring to, and I have read Utopia. I've also read other works like Brave New World which show you what the author sees as a Utopia only to destroy it.

    I believe what TechSkip was referring to was is the "impossibility" involved with both themes.
    Please see above. What I was "referring to" is that both themes are extremely similar and lack enough contrast for most individuals to tell them apart.

    I for one do not believe Romantiscm and Utopian are identical themes as Romance involves love, heroism and adventure while Utopias are perfect in function (thus making the concepts of love and heroism obosolete).

    IMO Tomorrowland should retain the kinda already there romantic theme and give us our hero's and adventures rather than being a "perfect" society.

    To me a Utopian theme would strive to be educational (which is Tomorrowland's original goal)...but it would be teaching something impossible. That's not cool with me. Romantic adventures would still appeal to all age groups and go well with the provided backdrop.
    Umm... Utopian still has the concept of love, and the concept of peace, because without these concepts you can not compare to what was before the Utopia. You must have a conflit to have a resolution of a Utopia... without the themes of love and peace Utopias are not possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyland Daddy View Post
    Who says Utopia can't be Romantic?
    Utopias are the pinnacle of Romantic in the sense that all flaws are removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    Utopia's are romantic in that they are a fantasy. However, they are not truly romantic by nature.

    If something is truly "perfect" there can be no opportunity for trouble. This means no opportunity for discovery, adventure or heroism.

    In my opinion, Utopia's are not truly romantic.
    Even with perfection there is opportunity for discovery. In that discovery there is opportunity for adventure. There is not an opportunity for heroism within that society unless it is outwardly attacked or inwardly challenged... which usually happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    I think going green in real life is a great plan, but I think it'd be a poor choice to make permanentish additions or changes to Tomorrowland that are explicitly thematically green. Going green is a great trend, but it is a trend nonetheless, and mark my words--decades from now, it'll be looked back on as exactly that. (Not trying to say environmentalism won't last or that it's bad or anything--just that going green is very much a trendy thing right now.) I don't want Tomorrowland to become dated.
    Considering the current state of affairs, and the direction taken by major industry... "Going Green" has become less of a fad or style, and more of a mainstream longterm direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anatole69 View Post
    When I studied romantic literature in college, part of the class was devoted to utopian literature. The utopian movement was a romantic movement.

    This is a redundant choice, IMO... they are essentially the same thing.
    This was in a sense my point, but not that they are the same, but that their minor differences are so subtle as to make it difficult to tell them apart.

    I think the better choices would be Utopian Vs. Dystopian, or Romantic Vs. Postmodern.

    Romanticiscm and Utopianism are pretty similar, no matter how you slice it.
    That was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    I disagree, I feel there are key differences between Utopianism and Romantisicm. I explained myself in my prior posts.
    Except what you failed to mention is that in order to have a Utopian you must involve Romanticism in order to remove those flaws. I too addressed this above.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  12. #42

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    What we don't need at Disneyland is Hollywood's bleak, apocalyptic view of the future as seen in Blade Runner, Alien, Tomorrowland '98, etc. That's defeatist. We need hope.
    I agree with that, definitely. Such futures have a place in fiction, but Disneyland ain't it. But...

    We need glorious ultramodern design and utopian fantasy. I still want to be The Jetsons.
    ...that's where I can no longer agree. Again, a utopia is perfect. That's not going to happen no matter what, so Tomorrowland would come off as unattainable and saccharine. It's possible to be sweet without being perfect, and that's what Disneyland excels at. I'll say it again--look to the other lands in the park, and tell me if perfection and lack of conflict work in the context of very many attractions. The Enchanted Tiki Room pulls it off, and that's about it. And even that ends with the gods becoming angered!


  13. #43

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    I still want to be The Jetsons.
    I help build "smart homes"... why do you think I am always so critical of Tomorrowland and it's apparent lack of technology.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  14. #44

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    611

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Wow techskip. Huge post.

    I must say I didn't consider the possibility of the "Utopia" being challenged from within or from an outside source. I simply assumed (and you all know what happens when we assume ) that people were rabbling for a Tomorrowland that is a Utopia in its...well...purely Utopian state; unchallenged and functional.

    This was due to Bystander's original post.

    Utopian: Concentrate on showing a wonderful future world with no serious problems.

    Romantic: Concentrate on showing a future world with both danger and the possibility of great deeds.
    To me a future with no serious problems would be rather boring...this is where I agree with Data and Proffesortango.

    ...that's where I can no longer agree. Again, a utopia is perfect. That's not going to happen no matter what, so Tomorrowland would come off as unattainable and saccharine. It's possible to be sweet without being perfect, and that's what Disneyland excels at. I'll say it again--look to the other lands in the park, and tell me if perfection and lack of conflict work in the context of very many attractions. The Enchanted Tiki Room pulls it off, and that's about it. And even that ends with the gods becoming angered!
    (Tango is qouted elsewhere)

    However; TechSkip brings up a good point when he says
    Even with perfection there is opportunity for discovery. In that discovery there is opportunity for adventure. There is not an opportunity for heroism within that society unless it is outwardly attacked or inwardly challenged... which usually happens.
    If there were a Tomorrowland portrayed as a Utopian society I fathom a place that harbors a perfect society exploring themes of adventure through discovery.

    Ironically this is what the original Tomorrowland strived to be. Perhaps I am a little to used to the current "something went wrong now lets save the day" type of Tomorrowland we have now (which in my opinion is more Romantic than Utopian as I feel that I do recognize the subtle differences between the two.)
    Last edited by Bubbadunne; 03-30-2008 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Making points :D

  15. #45

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    Wow techskip. Huge post.
    Sorry for the large post. I tend to collect quotes and then address them all at once.

    Perhaps I am a little to used to the current "something went wrong now lets save the day" type of Tomorrowland we have now (which in my opinion is more Romantic than Utopian as I feel that I do recognize the subtle differences between the two.)
    It is not just WDI that suffers from "something went horribly wrong", most shows and movies are now written in that fashion. It seems to be harder and harder to find amusing media that is well written and creative. I honestly miss things like the old Twilight Zone, which showed scenes of the bizarre without offering an explanation. They didn't offer a why, or a "what happened?" they simply showcased science fiction for the purpose of showcasing science fiction.

    On a historical note most societies that strived to be civilized and "Utopian" were brought down by either outside forces or inside pressure, or a combination of both. Most Literature also reflects that.

    I would love to see a Tomorrowland that explores the themes of Science and Discovery, if only to highlight how much we don't know, and how much there is left to learn in the future. I would love to be greeted by cutting edge, slightly outdated, and concept technology, instead of being greeted by cartoon toys. Show me a touchscreen and a deep sea creature translator, not a cartoon ray gun and and rerun movie!
    Last edited by techskip; 03-30-2008 at 11:19 AM.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] Is Tomorrowland already a vision of the future??
    By PeopleMover Eric in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-09-2009, 08:26 AM
  2. [Question] Buzz's Future for Tomorrowland?
    By WJNM in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 11-07-2008, 02:06 PM
  3. Back to the Future...Tomorrowland Station
    By Kyle B. in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-21-2008, 06:29 PM
  4. Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?
    By animagusurreal in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-15-2007, 02:40 AM
  5. 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future
    By fo'c's'le swab in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 07-19-2007, 09:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •