View Poll Results: Should Tomorrowland be Utopian or Romantic?

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  • Utopian

    40 60.61%
  • Romantic

    26 39.39%
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  1. #61

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
    what romanticism glosses over is whatever is dull, ordinary, or complicated.
    But I want to know how people go to the bathroom in the future! Will there be toilet paper, or some new eco-friendly technology that quietly whooshes away the remaining waste matter with hypoallergenic air jets while we surf the internet or watch satellite TV?

  2. #62

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    >>TL '98 wasn't post apocalyptic nor bleak. It actually had an optamistic, and quite unintriguing, throughline to the design.<<

    Perhaps in theory, but not execution.

    For much of its existence, what we got with Tomorrowland 98 was a dingy brown world with a hulking garbage sculpture as a centerpiece... a highway in the sky to nowhere, long abandoned... a wet marble with no working fountains... a catpoo covered Space Mountain mouldering on the horizon... an empty lagoon occasionally floating trash... and little cars still spouting gas fumes in the future world.

    No gloomy agrifuture crops could cheer that picture up - - Eisner and Pressler couldn't have come up with a bleaker corporate Tomorrow than they did in 98.

  3. #63

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    I think i need to consult my Science Fiction and Film Comp. teacher tomorrow. He is a living legend. Tom Alessandri would know! Who knew romanticism and a utopia would be so debatable


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  4. #64

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    I thought I'd point out that there's nothing inherently more "realistic" about a dystopic or pessimistic view of the future. While a Utopia usually involves the removal or ignorance of flaws, Dystopias are an amplification and a total implementation of them. Neither are realistic, as both are heavy exaggerations of any recognizable reality.

    That being said, Disneyland is a theme park, where families are supposed to have fun and to largely escape the problems of the present and enter a place where these problems don't exist--- a Utopia, in every sense of the word. Shouldn't all aspects of the park in some way reflect this?

    Tomorrowland shouldn't gloss over the environmental/energy problems we're facing today and seek Monsanto sponsorship again, but I also think they shouldn't let their land made with the intent to explore a brighter future be bogged down with the concerns of the present. Instead of having an attraction all about global warming and environmental hazards, why not have one where the possible future of alternate energy sources is explored? Tomorrowland should inspire hope and remind the audience the possibilities at hand in the world, not its shortcomings and failures.

  5. #65

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    You sight that the genres are similar and on the same spectrum. You state Utopianism is one one end of the spectrum and Realism is on the other with Romanticism somewhere in the middle.

    However, most people in the field would sight Realism and Romanticism as complete opposites with Utopianism as a completely different beast. Utopianism and Romantisicm definately share many similarites and be related thematically...but in reality (no pun inteded) Romantisicm and Utopianism are different things entirely. This is from a language arts P.O.V.
    Here is the thing. Realism is exactly what it states... Realistic... Romanticism is a highlight of Realism which embellishes and polishes what actually happens in an attempt to tell a story. Include enough embellishments, leave out enough details, and you have effectively written most political resumes which would be Utopian... preaching perfect and lacking any mistakes... That came directly from Journalism Class.

    Now the fun part. When Sinclair wrote The Jungle most people didn't believe it, they believed it was a dark, pessimistic, romanticism in reverse if you will. They challenged every aspect of it. When it was found to be accurate and truthful the title "muckracker" was lifted and new food restrictions and reforms took center stage.

    Ultimately these three styles are linked. Without Realism and some basis in fact Romanticism becomes difficult at best, usually impossible. Without the embellishment and removal of facts from Romanticism you can not have the perfection of Utopian. Which means they are not seperate beasts, they are linked, and by being linked it becomes a natural literary progression for a work to transgress from one stage of evolution to the next.
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  6. #66

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
    Two things:

    First, what romanticism glosses over is whatever is dull, ordinary, or complicated. If you compare the romantic myth of the old west to the actual historical accounts, one thing you will notice is that the romantic myth is an absolute bloodblath compared to the historical accounts. The outbreaks of violence are played up to the point where there hardly seems to be anything else. What's played *down* is the ordinary day-to-day living that connected them.
    Actually it is at the discretion of the author as to what is Romanticized, and it depends on their work. What will happen is that some facts are exaggerated, and some facts fall by the waist side. If enough facts fall through the cracks then the individuals are portrayed as "perfect", and with each embellishment the work steps closer to being Utopian, devoid of fault and conflict per your definition.

    Second, utopias rarely last in science fiction because science fiction is a very romantic genre, and utopias are so unromantic that few science-fiction writers will devote much time to describing them. This means that the utopia will likely be immediately attacked, or turn out to have some terrible flaw, or simply be kept offstage as the protagonist goes and has romantic adventures elsewhere.
    Actually Utopias are almost always found at either the beginning or the end of a Science Fiction novel to highlight what was either before the conflict, or what happened as a result of it. It gives the Utopian meaning and context, by explaining the sacrifices that were taken in forming it. It is that progression that is highlighted... you go from fighting and Romanticism to everything is perfect and Utopian, or vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronpaulcustoms View Post
    I think i need to consult my Science Fiction and Film Comp. teacher tomorrow. He is a living legend. Tom Alessandri would know! Who knew romanticism and a utopia would be so debatable
    Definately, and anything on MiceChat is debatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    I thought I'd point out that there's nothing inherently more "realistic" about a dystopic or pessimistic view of the future. While a Utopia usually involves the removal or ignorance of flaws, Dystopias are an amplification and a total implementation of them. Neither are realistic, as both are heavy exaggerations of any recognizable reality.
    and it is that twist of reality that is Romanticism. Without that twist you would not progress from Real to Utopian or Dystopian depending upon the Author's whim.

    Tomorrowland should inspire hope and remind the audience the possibilities at hand in the world, not its shortcomings and failures.
    That is the Tomorrowland I would vote for, except that without shortcomings there would be no subject for Attractions.

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  7. #67

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Did ya get all that Data? I can type it slower if ya need me to!
    I'm fine. You must have forgotten that you're addressing a Bruin, not a fellow Trojan, techskip.


  8. #68

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    I'm fine. You must have forgotten that you're addressing a Bruin, not a fellow Trojan, techskip.
    USMC, we're used to speaking slowly for both schools! so typing is even easier. My sis an my friends went to one or the other though (USC or UCLA),
    Last edited by techskip; 03-30-2008 at 06:16 PM.
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  9. #69

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Sorry about the brain fart, skip.


  10. #70

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    Re: Should Tomorrowland show a romantic or utopian view of the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    >>TL '98 wasn't post apocalyptic nor bleak. It actually had an optamistic, and quite unintriguing, throughline to the design.<<

    Perhaps in theory, but not execution.

    For much of its existence, what we got with Tomorrowland 98 was a dingy brown world with a hulking garbage sculpture as a centerpiece... a highway in the sky to nowhere, long abandoned... a wet marble with no working fountains... a catpoo covered Space Mountain mouldering on the horizon... an empty lagoon occasionally floating trash... and little cars still spouting gas fumes in the future world.

    No gloomy agrifuture crops could cheer that picture up - - Eisner and Pressler couldn't have come up with a bleaker corporate Tomorrow than they did in 98.
    No...it was executed like an earthly utopia. Bright warm earthtones, open architecture, farm-like landscaping, calm lagoon, scenic drive through a park, giant device which sends out a message of peace every 15 minutes.

    The problem was, besides being underfunded, it was incredibly boring. Farms are not exciting to me, either here and now nor in the future. Driving through pretty pastures is a yawnfest for me. I don't need e-ticket story elements, but make it fun and exciting to drive in the future, not passive.

    I still prefer most of TL 98 to earlier versions. I enjoyed Rocket Rods much more than peoplemover, they finally got rid of the laughable Tron tunnel, actual architecture came into play and made the look of the land more dynamic (Innovations Building, main coridoor), textured real surfaces looked much better than stucco white. Sure it needed more money so they could have done what they had planned out, including the lagoon and other projects.

    While this may seem off topic, it still boils down to my overall thought that Utopia's come across as boring. Early TL was much too "perfect." Corny edutainment filled far too much. The more romantic the land became, the more popular it was. Mission to Mars was far more popular than Mission to the Moon, Star Tours was a huge attraction, and TL 98 helped break the boring mold of the overall land. Sure, Atlanta has burned a little, but what is being rebuilt there is far more impressive than what had stood for decades drawing nothing but yawns.

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