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  1. #31

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by thrax View Post
    make sure u try the goat trick
    Aaahhh, the Goat Trick...

  2. #32

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    What's the goat trick?
    "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau


  3. #33

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by PretzelSouls View Post
    What's the goat trick?
    depending on your back I really wouldn't recommend this. It is starring at the goat as you spin around it. Because you are concentrating on a fixed point while in motion and physically turning yourself... it caused a euphoric sensation.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip
    Yes and no... enjoy the link
    Skip, skip, skip. Here we go again, and this time, it's not a matter of opinion at stake. We're dealing with a hard scientific definition that I've studied and dealt with. I'll start off by quoting the very page you linked to, sir:

    Quote Originally Posted by Phun Physics website
    It is important to note that the centrifugal force does not actually exist.
    If you're having trouble believing the website you yourself referred to, try the Wikipedia article on for size. You'll note that it points out two definitions for the term. The second is the fictitious force we've been talking about--the one that doesn't really exist--and the first is very real, though the term isn't usually used by scientists because of the confusion that arises. This real force is actually just a specific case of what we call the "normal force"--that is, the force an object exerts back on another object that's exerting a force on it by contact. The Earth pulls me down towards its center, for instance, but my chair gets in the way, and thus the chair exerts a normal force upward on my butt.

    The normal force that may be called "centrifugal force" is exerted by the rotating object on whatever is causing it to rotate. In other words, the runaway train does NOT exert centrifugal force on me as we go through a turn. I exert a centrifugal force on the train, and that force is directed away from the center of the turn.

    The bottom line is this: the "force" you feel pressing you into your seat when you go through a banked turn or a loop or the bottom of a hill is not a true force in the scientific sense. That's a fact, not a debatable opinion. What you're feeling is your own body trying to move in a straight line, as all objects do, but the track and roller coaster are forcing you onto a curved (aka not straight) path.

    Sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but it had to be said.


  5. #35

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Wow. Yeah, I think I'll pass on that! Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    depending on your back I really wouldn't recommend this. It is starring at the goat as you spin around it. Because you are concentrating on a fixed point while in motion and physically turning yourself... it caused a euphoric sensation.
    "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau


  6. #36

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverNeverland View Post
    Sit in the very front and you'll see how slow it is! It seems like it brakes going down the hills so you don't get the momentum you do in the front.
    You yook the words right out of my mouth... One time I sat in the front and I was sooo bored... Whatever you do don't sit in the back because it is much more intense in the back...
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  7. #37

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Skip, skip, skip. Here we go again, and this time, it's not a matter of opinion at stake. We're dealing with a hard scientific definition that I've studied and dealt with. I'll start off by quoting the very page you linked to, sir
    Is it so hard to realize when I am agreeing with you? Not that I am a huge fan of UCLA but they do teach English Comp there right? Yes and No... yes it is not a real force but by definition it is actually a lack of force... that portion is in several articles and it lead to the development of the airplane engine and NASA training among other things. It also explains how you can lift a 3lb weight with a tennis ball... as I said it is the natural tendency to pull away from the center or a "lack of force" if you will. I can go into the physics of it and write down the equations if need be but I thought the simplified link provided would suffice.
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  8. #38

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Let me third the motion to sit at or near the front, you spend the first half of the hill going slower as the train is still pulling the back half of the train up the hill.

    As far as the goat trick although I love the sensation it gives me in my stomach, I don't recommend it for anyone with a spinal issue, you have twist in your seat as the train is hurtling forward and around to the right...I'd say not worth it in your case.

    Enjoy it, it's definitely one of my favorite rides (and I'm not a big coaster fan either)!

    Julie

  9. #39

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Here's a good video to let you see for yourself, and then judge whether or not you want to ride it. I recommend (in your case) to sit near the front, but not in the absolute front seat (way too boring), if at all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...?v=p5tjmcJEkRA


    I hope you can make it on this great ride at some point, it really is a blast!

  10. #40

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Well, I'll ignore the UCLA jab--turnabout's fair play --but...

    as I said it is the natural tendency to pull away from the center or a "lack of force" if you will.
    I'm having trouble with your wording here. This scenario has plenty of forces involved. It's just that there isn't a force being exerted on the rider toward the seat (with the exception of gravity). If we can agree on that simple fact, I think we're good. And yes, to answer your question in the PM, I am planning on seeing it, albeit not on opening day. I hope it'll be good...

    I can go into the physics of it and write down the equations if need be but I thought the simplified link provided would suffice.
    There aren't many equations to deal with here in the first place...substitute a=v^2/r into F=ma and you've got F=mv^2/a, the equation presented on the page you linked to. That's the centripetal force exerted on the rider toward the center of the turn, which is equal to the normal/centrifugal force exerted on the seat by the rider according to Newton's third law. Then there's the force of gravity, which is 9.8*m, and you just have to make that's greater than the centripetal force, but not too much greater. I can't think of any other relevant formulae...

    Oh, and skip, if you're going to attack me on the grounds of not having a proper mastery of the English language, I'd suggest checking your own posts first. You've got mixed tenses, lack of punctuation, lack of capitalization, and misspellings all over the place. And that's just in this thread!

    (By the way, to anyone else reading this little sparring match, please understand that techskip and I aren't actually angry at each other and we have plenty of mutual respect. He just likes to say things that he knows I'll pick a fight about. Wink wink. )


  11. #41

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Well, I'll ignore the UCLA jab--turnabout's fair play --but...

    I'm having trouble with your wording here. This scenario has plenty of forces involved. It's just that there isn't a force being exerted on the rider toward the seat (with the exception of gravity). If we can agree on that simple fact, I think we're good. And yes, to answer your question in the PM, I am planning on seeing it, albeit not on opening day. I hope it'll be good...

    There aren't many equations to deal with here in the first place...substitute a=v^2/r into F=ma and you've got F=mv^2/a, the equation presented on the page you linked to. That's the centripetal force exerted on the rider toward the center of the turn, which is equal to the normal/centrifugal force exerted on the seat by the rider according to Newton's third law. Then there's the force of gravity, which is 9.8*m, and you just have to make that's greater than the centripetal force, but not too much greater. I can't think of any other relevant formulae...

    Oh, and skip, if you're going to attack me on the grounds of not having a proper mastery of the English language, I'd suggest checking your own posts first. You've got mixed tenses, lack of punctuation, lack of capitalization, and misspellings all over the place. And that's just in this thread!

    (By the way, to anyone else reading this little sparring match, please understand that techskip and I aren't actually angry at each other and we have plenty of mutual respect. He just likes to say things that he knows I'll pick a fight about. Wink wink. )
    Typos just to annoy! Although usually I go back and edit them out. The part that you can't "beat" is that NASA not only studied the effect in depth... they use it to test pilots and astronauts. For that matter several carni rides are based specifically on this effect. It is an effect of several forces, not a force. I also know the numbers, I just thought that as a student of Newton you may wish to see them. Thank you for explaining our friendship on here. I realized after the fact these posts could easily be misconstrued as fighting. Well technically "beating" because "fighting" would imply you stood a chance.

    Speaking of typos that would be F=m(v^2/a) there physics boy! Unless you wish to completely negate the order of operations. not sure since this is public school
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  12. #42

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...


  13. #43

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    Beat this


    Mods please note that is a specific phrase directly related to the theming of the goat on BTM!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  14. #44

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Ah, what's that I hear? I think that's a resolution coming! It's not here yet, but it's approaching. However, before I catch that train...

    Quote Originally Posted by Techskip
    Speaking of typos that would be F=m(v^2/a) there physics boy! Unless you wish to completely negate the order of operations.
    You may want to review the order of operations to which you now cleave. Exponentiation comes before multiplication and division, so it's clear in F=mv^2/a that only the v is squared. Then come multiplication and division, which are done starting at the left and progressively continuing to the right. It ends up being the exact same thing. You can double-check that Wikipedia article, too. Now, if I'd written F=(mv)^2/a, then I'd be in trouble. But I didn't. F equals mv^2/a equals m(v^2/a) equals (mv^2)/a and so forth.

    Skip, if you want to edit this bit out of your post, I'll edit this bit out of mine too, just to save you the embarrassment.


  15. #45

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Ah, what's that I hear? I think that's a resolution coming! It's not here yet, but it's approaching. However, before I catch that train...



    You may want to review the order of operations to which you now cleave. Exponentiation comes before multiplication and division, so it's clear in F=mv^2/a that only the v is squared. Then come multiplication and division, which are done starting at the left and progressively continuing to the right. It ends up being the exact same thing. You can double-check that Wikipedia article, too. Now, if I'd written F=(mv)^2/a, then I'd be in trouble. But I didn't. F equals mv^2/a equals m(v^2/a) equals (mv^2)/a and so forth.

    Skip, if you want to edit this bit out of your post, I'll edit this bit out of mine too, just to save you the embarrassment.
    Are you kidding... I believe in showing when I am at fault, you know that. I am extremely tired and actually reviewed this prior to your posting it and was in the middle of typing a reply when I noticed yours. My apologies on the order comment because you are right, the entire thing is divided by the radius after speed is squared so yeah.. it is as you wrote it. However this forumula also proves my comment of yes and no. Yes it is not an actual force but No it can not be completely discounted either. It is the action of several forces acting at once, or if you prefer the simple explanation the absence of force.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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