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  1. #46

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    We agreed on something, skip! We did it! Hooray! I still take issue a little with your explanation at the end of your last post, but I think we're both thinking along the same lines even if we're not expressing it the same way.


  2. #47

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    We agreed on something, skip! We did it! Hooray! I still take issue a little with your explanation at the end of your last post, but I think we're both thinking along the same lines even if we're not expressing it the same way.
    We generally tend to agree, even if that agreement is to disagree! There are only a few topics that we actually don't agree on.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  3. #48

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    We generally tend to agree, even if that agreement is to disagree! There are only a few topics that we actually don't agree on.
    I disagree with that statement.






  4. #49

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    *ahem*




  5. #50

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Being an actual, bona fide Astrophysics major and having taken more kinematics exams than I can remember without shuddering, the truth of the matter has finally been reached. Should anyone need a diagram of forces, I have about 20 different textbooks I could scan.

    Roller coaster forces, and indeed the forces you experience in your car, are identical. A roller coaster designer's job is to push those forces to the point that you feel like you are out of control while really being under complete control.

    This is an important point to remember when riding coasters, especially if they scare or frighten you. Mulholland Madness actually has the front wheels of the coaster significantly further back than normal so that the passenger car moves out past the edge of the track as it turns before actually beginning the turn. This simple trick gives a very convincing feeling of "Oh dear God we are coming off the track and we're going to die!!!"

    Rotational kinematics (motion in curves) deals with 2 forces: Centripetal and inertial. Centripetal force is actually an acceleration (any change in speed or direction is an acceleration). Inertia is an object's resistance to acceleration. You feel this when you drive your car. Being pressed into your seat as you accelerate is actually your body wanting to stay still as the car tries to push it.

    Imagine swinging a ball on a rope around your head. If you just throw a ball normally it's going to go in a single direction away from you. Attach a rope, however, and suddenly the ball goes into a curved path around you. The rope causes a centripetal force on the ball that pulls it towards you (the center around which it is orbiting). What keeps the string taut though is inertia. Newton showed the world that an object will try to keep doing what it is doing unless something acts on it. Without the centripetal force of the string, that ball would fly off in a straight line, so that is what the ball wants to do. In fact, at every instant as it flies around your head, that ball is attempting to fly off in a straight line, but the string keeps tugging in on it keeping it in a circle. Imagine yourself on a merry-go-round spinning fast and you'll know how the ball feels. As you spin faster, you feel pulled outward more and more. That is inertia trying to keep your body going in a straight line as the merry-go-round tugs you in a circle instead. You've also felt this in your car as you take a corner to tightly. Your body wants to keep going straight down the road like it was, but suddenly the car is turning sharply and you feel thrown to one side or the other. This is NOT centrifugal force as that does not exist. It is inertia countering centripetal force. The term "centrifugal" was coined by Newton in 1689 to describe the balance between centripetal force and inertia, it is not a force itself. The word centrifugal comes from the latin words for "center" and "to flee" and shows that it describes the tendency of an spinning object to obey it's inertia and flee, or move further, from the center around which it is rotating.

    If you take a corner in your car at 5 miles per hour, you don't even feel that you are being "thrown" to one side because the centripetal force is significantly larger than your inertia. However, take a corner at 50 and your inertia is larger than the centripetal force and you start to slide across your seat. It is this delicate balance that thrill ride designers play with to make you feel like you are in a dangerous situation.
    Last edited by mycroft16; 04-01-2008 at 08:10 AM.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  6. #51

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Thanks for the thought...but you're barely breaking 80%. You're still referring to the fictitious "centrifugal force" in your post. (If you really want the 100%, try something like "apparent disregard for Newton's first law of motion." )
    I often read your posts--you should HOPE for 80% . Additionally, Mr. Big Brain, my percentage of satisfaction in that posting was just above 97.19% (since we all hate to be nit-picky, big math/physics fancy-pants ).

  7. #52

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Being an actual, bona fide Astrophysics major and having taken more kinematics exams than I can remember without shuddering, the truth of the matter has finally been reached. Should anyone need a diagram of forces, I have about 20 different textbooks I could scan.

    Roller coaster forces, and indeed the forces you experience in your car, are identical. A roller coaster designer's job is to push those forces to the point that you feel like you are out of control while really being under complete control.

    This is an important point to remember when riding coasters, especially if they scare or frighten you. Mulholland Madness actually has the front wheels of the coaster significantly further back than normal so that the passenger car moves out past the edge of the track as it turns before actually beginning the turn. This simple trick gives a very convincing feeling of "Oh dear God we are coming off the track and we're going to die!!!"

    Rotational kinematics (motion in curves) deals with 2 forces: Centripetal and inertial. Centripetal force is actually an acceleration (any change in speed or direction is an acceleration). Inertia is an object's resistance to acceleration. You feel this when you drive your car. Being pressed into your seat as you accelerate is actually your body wanting to stay still as the car tries to push it.

    Imagine swinging a ball on a rope around your head. If you just throw a ball normally it's going to go in a single direction away from you. Attach a rope, however, and suddenly the ball goes into a curved path around you. The rope causes a centripetal force on the ball that pulls it towards you (the center around which it is orbiting). What keeps the string taut though is inertia. Newton showed the world that an object will try to keep doing what it is doing unless something acts on it. Without the centripetal force of the string, that ball would fly off in a straight line, so that is what the ball wants to do. In fact, at every instant as it flies around your head, that ball is attempting to fly off in a straight line, but the string keeps tugging in on it keeping it in a circle. Imagine yourself on a merry-go-round spinning fast and you'll know how the ball feels. As you spin faster, you feel pulled outward more and more. That is inertia trying to keep your body going in a straight line as the merry-go-round tugs you in a circle instead. You've also felt this in your car as you take a corner to tightly. Your body wants to keep going straight down the road like it was, but suddenly the car is turning sharply and you feel thrown to one side or the other. This is NOT centrifugal force as that does not exist. It is inertia countering centripetal force. The term "centrifugal" was coined by Newton in 1689 to describe the balance between centripetal force and inertia, it is not a force itself. The word centrifugal comes from the latin words for "center" and "to flee" and shows that it describes the tendency of an spinning object to obey it's inertia and flee, or move further, from the center around which it is rotating.

    If you take a corner in your car at 5 miles per hour, you don't even feel that you are being "thrown" to one side because the centripetal force is significantly larger than your inertia. However, take a corner at 50 and your inertia is larger than the centripetal force and you start to slide across your seat. It is this delicate balance that thrill ride designers play with to make you feel like you are in a dangerous situation.
    Correct.

    I often read your posts--you should HOPE for 80% . Additionally, Mr. Big Brain, my percentage of satisfaction in that posting was just above 97.19% (since we all hate to be nit-picky, big math/physics fancy-pants ).
    Hey hey hey, I'm fine with people not describing stuff in scientific terms. I just get annoyed when scientific terms enter the mix incorrectly.


  8. #53

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    To true Data. I believe physics should be understandable by anyone (and it is, if it is explained properly). This requires the use of proper terms though, and that usually ruffles my feathers a bit, improper terminology.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  9. #54

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Hey hey hey, I'm fine with people not describing stuff in scientific terms. I just get annoyed when scientific terms enter the mix incorrectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    To true Data. I believe physics should be understandable by anyone (and it is, if it is explained properly). This requires the use of proper terms though, and that usually ruffles my feathers a bit, improper terminology.
    Apologies for any consternation caused to the Brain Trust over my crass fumblings in the apparently all too delicate world of physics. I will be of no further annoyance to you two.

  10. #55

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Apologies for any consternation caused to the Brain Trust over my crass fumblings in the apparently all too delicate world of physics. I will be of no further annoyance to you two.


  11. #56

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    No, annoy away fo'c's'le... you are the theme guru of the site and physics without theme is just an amusement park, while theme without physics is still a pretty picture.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #57

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    What is the scientific term for me falling asleep reading all these scientific terms?

  13. #58

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    What is the scientific term for me falling asleep reading all these scientific terms?
    that would be "normal"
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  14. #59

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    that would be "normal"
    are you insinuating that i'm not normal!? cause if you are... umm... oh wait.

    i'm so not normal.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #60

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    Re: Big Thunder Mountain...

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    are you insinuating that i'm not normal!? cause if you are... umm... oh wait.

    i'm so not normal.
    The minute someone is deemed normal they are banished from MiceChat. That's a rule most are unfamiliar with.

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