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  1. #211

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    Jan 2005
    Woodland Hills CA - Hottest spot in Los Angeles City Limits

    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    See the thing is, horses can only go in one direction.

    Electric street cars can go 'forwards' or 'backwards' so to speak.

    (Steve, can you word that a little better for me?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yep, CA. Trolleys are "Bi."

    (Directional, that is).
    The horsecars aer "Bi-directional" too - how do you think they get them Backstage at the ned of the day? They unhitch the horse from the front and walk him around to the rear, where there is another haul point. Then the horse pulls the car through the gate by the Firehouse and back to the car barn. (Trolleys do the same thing, but instead of switching the horse to the other end they only have to switch the pole.)

    The reason they went with the "One Way" design was operating simplicity - that way the track switches along the route only need simple spring-loaded points - they don't need switch stands or anything technical.

    When they are going 'forward' the horsecar always bears to the right at the crossing track, and enters the Car Barn spur from the backside of the switch.

    You could do the same thing with trolley cars in a loop or Figure 8 layout - simple spring loaded track switch points, and the catenary frogs (split points for the power) have ramps built in that always send the trolley pole pickup wheel in the right direction depending on whether you approach it in 'forward' or 'reverse'.

    Looks simple on the surface, don't it?

    --<< Bruce >>--
    There's No Place Like

  2. #212

    • Still lost in Neverland
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    Jan 2005
    Van Nuys, CA

    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    And it was mentioned in one post that there would be passing tracks at several locations along the route, which could mean more than one car. They would just have to operate on a set schedule so that at each passing track, there would on car in each direction. If a Car got there ahead of schedule, they would have to stop and wait. The passing lanes could also be boarding and un-boarding spots so people could get on and off at those passing points.
    Peter Pan Forever!!! I Will Never Grow Up.

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  3. #213

    • Circle of Ancients
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    Jan 2005
    Paris, France / Los Angeles
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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Don't ever tell a man his horse looks bi-directional.

    You insult a man's horse, you might as well insult his mother, pardner.

    You just might taste lead from a shotgun.

  4. #214

    • "I Break Things"
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    Jun 2007

    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    I generally do not make private conversations public, but Bruce didn't have a chance to post this so here goes!
    Quote Originally Posted by techskip
    Bruce... a bit late to the party but...
    #1 Price, I am wondering if it is more cost effective to do overhead power or no overhead power, either way I want the overhead lines.

    #2 Design. The original specifications given were 15ft... only after questions about the Parades and my comment about being 6'4 did the magic 20ft number come up... and I am fine with 20ft and there would be little to no reason to move a 20ft high line!

    #3 Scale- if we used the 5/8 scale Steve cited then it would be cramped regardless of batteries or no batteries.

    #4 Space- Can they utilize a loop that would allow them to have multiple cars WITHOUT needing Carsland to be built? I would love a single forward/reverse rail if it wasn't popular, but the line for this single car operation will be HUGE even if it is one way!

    #5 Time- the longer they stall trying to decide if they are going to do this the more likely it will be cut drastically or shelved all together hence the question on #4

    So as I have said and continue to say I am all for an overhead line, real or dummy. I continue to ask what would be cheaper, and I continue to hope it will be done but I see problems with this skyrocketing budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman
    Price - the Wampfler inductive system costs a LOT compared to a catenary system and a simple static power converter plant to make 9600 VAC 3-Phase from Anaheim Power & Light into 600 VDC - Old Tech wins.

    And more maintenance on the charging system and the batteries in the car vs external catenary power and converter plants - Old Tech wins again.

    5/8 scale might be a bit small, see if someone is using 3/4 scale on 3' narrow gauge, that way DL can use the same speeders and other right-of-way gear for both DLRR and DCA Trolleys. Or 'Full Size', but one of the deliberately smaller train designs, the PE and LARyCo had smaller trolley cars for the lightly used lines.

    Clearance: You can't scale that down.

    The Pasadena Gold Line light rail trains have pantograph arms that can operate with the catenary contact wire placed anywhere between 13'-3" to 23'-3" above the rails. And the old-style Trolley Pole can have a wider range than a pantograph pickup.

    The contact wire has to be a minimum of 19' above streets with traffic. Trucks are 13' 8" without special permits. That still leaves five feet.

    The clearance rules are Here, and for the most part they are Non-Negotiable -

    The Gold Line got a waiver for 13'6" above mean track grade level - but that was for an access restricted area in a tunnel, not at street crossings where pedestrians have access - they go back up when they clear the cuts.

    The chart for minimums is here -
    Thank you Bruce for the links, and for the information.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

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