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  1. #1

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    Trolley Car Troubles

    I am not sure how many read Al's articles. I enjoy them, and while I don't read them the moment they come out I do eventually get around to them. Many on here know that I tend to pick on WDI a lot. Here... will be another stunning example of it.

    Part of Al's article was the decision to not have a full replica theater complete with Walt show. There were a number of reasons cited as to why, but the nail in the coffin was the ballooning trolley car budget. I realize everyone will immediately blame the bean counters at TDA but before they start I wanted to point all of this out!

    Evidently no one in WDI realized that high voltage cable car power lines, and mylar balloons don't mix. I'm not a rocket scientist but I believe Ben Franklin effectively proved something similar in one of his experiments. In one of my other threads I complained about the "what do we do now" attitude expressed by WDI when things don't go their way and budgets get cut. I complained about poor planning, and a lack of plan B... this is another wonderful example. You can't have high voltage lines above because of balloons and stupid people. You can't have voltage on the tracks because, well, people will be walking on them. So... that leaves the individual cars. Ironically the Main Street Vehicles could easily provide the solution... natural gas! Simple, easy, effective. You could still have those wonderful lines, minus the power, to at least present an accurate portrayal of how the cars used to run. Parades would be another logistical problem... possibly a raising/lowering mechanism similar to theater rigs... again not rocket science!

    Design and Construction of the cars should be even easier. Obviously they will be scaled down, but you could technically use the current Horse Drawn Carriages as a template for the scale. The Horse Drawn was the predecessor to the electric trolley! San Pedro just finished their trolley a couple years back, those blueprints are easily accessible. Likewise you can see a fully restored one at Travel Town. If you use the Horse Drawn scale that that also takes care of parts, and track gauge! About the only problem I can see is a roundhouse or other alternate area for storage, depending on how many you could even model that after the current method for the Horse Drawn.

    So I am done with the soapbox if anyone else wants to take it from here but once again I can't understand how something this simple became so complicated! Actually I'm lying... I can understand... I've seen it firsthand before! So now feel free to blame the bean counters, personally I blame the ones who didn't realize a high voltage power line and a mylar balloon could BBQ a tourist!

    Edit: Evidently the mylar comment has been disproven but to prove it was not me who came up with it
    The nail in the coffin came with the ballooning budget for the elaborate Pacific Electric Railway Red Car system to be installed from the DCA entrance back through the Hollywood section. When the Imagineers realized that running high capacity electric trolley lines down the middle of a busy theme park full of kids holding Mylar balloons would prove to be a real design challenge, the costs for the installation of this custom built trolley line began to skyrocket. With the Red Car attraction needing more money, and with the Walt Disney Story receiving lots of pushback from TDA, the decision was made to abandon plans for another tribute to Walt in Anaheim.
    from Al's article. http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al040808a.htm

    Have a nice day!
    Last edited by techskip; 04-20-2008 at 12:44 PM.
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  2. #2

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I'm not a rocket scientist but I believe Ben Franklin effectively proved something similar in one of his experiments.
    True, in fact he had firsthand knowledge, his full name was Benjamin Mylar Franklin. He appears somewhat rotund (and ocassionally shiny) in etchings and oil paintings but it was actually the Mylar effect.
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  3. #3

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    I don't see why they can't use self propelled red cars and just use faux non-conducive wire to create a convincing effect.

    If parades are a problem they can create a mechanism to remove this wiring at least temporarily for the parade.

  4. #4

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    BTW ^ this thread title would also double for a fun new title/story for Roger Rabbit. Damn you Judge Doom!
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  5. #5

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Personally I would hate to see wires hanging all over the place. I would love to see the trolleys, but the wires can go. They can still use electricity with no problems at all. The peoplemover at the MK at WDW uses electromagnetic propulsion. You could easily use the exact same method of locomotion and all you would have to do is place the magnets underneath the top most layer of the street. It would be very easy to do this. Or, as mentioned in another thread, use the same technology used at The Grove in LA. The trolleys are battery powered. They get quick recharges at either end of the loop using electromagnetic induction and then a full recharge each night.

  6. #6

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    The trolleys in San Francisco are pulled by an underground cable, that seems like a reasonable solution. Although as far as theming goes I dont know when the first underground cables were implemented.

    is this what they are making?
    http://www.railwaypreservation.com/5...lowers_sm2.jpg

  7. #7

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    With the exception of mice chatters, i doubt the average tourist would notice if there weren't any wires and if they did, it wouldn't kill them anyway. Just go with natural gas or battery power would be my solution. The details on the cars themselves will immerse people rather than the lines.

  8. #8

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoMatt View Post
    Personally I would hate to see wires hanging all over the place. I would love to see the trolleys, but the wires can go. They can still use electricity with no problems at all.
    Yeah, thats true, but not having wires would lose the attention to detail, even if they didn't work. The plan so far is to have the wires there just for show and run the cars run off batteries.

  9. #9

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by patattack View Post
    The trolleys in San Francisco are pulled by an underground cable, that seems like a reasonable solution. Although as far as theming goes I dont know when the first underground cables were implemented.

    is this what they are making?
    http://www.railwaypreservation.com/5...lowers_sm2.jpg
    Yes, but thats in San Francisco, the new area for DCA is based on LA with the Red line cars that have overhead cables.

  10. #10

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Why do people buy balloons anyway!?!?!?!?! Grrrrrr, just get mickey ears instead and leave the balloon selling to DL.


  11. #11

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    I say, the state of California bans anyone under a certian IQ to entering a theme park problem solved

  12. #12

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    Why do people buy balloons anyway!?!?!?!?! Grrrrrr, just get mickey ears instead and leave the balloon selling to DL.
    They can still cross over from DL to DCA with their stupid balloons

  13. #13

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    The streets are already too crowded there, and will be even more, with all of the new and exciting changes coming. There isn't room for any of the new vehicles they have talked about, and they will probably just end up sitting there as scenery like the trolley in Toon Town.
    PhotoMatt seems to have the best solution by using the Grove-type trolley as a good plan B. The wires would obviously be a problem, for a number of reasons, even if it is the proper detail.

    I heard the other day that the idea of using any vehicles had already been scrapped, but haven't seen anything confirmed.


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  14. #14

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Didn't we have a discussion a couple of weeks ago saying how every detail was important? If I remember correctly it was about the new Mr. Potato head and how he used the wrong kind of microphone. Shouldn't we apply the same type of scrutiny here? WDI is actually doing what we want them to do, and we're criticizing them for it.

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  15. #15

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    Re: Trolley Car Troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by The Disneylander View Post
    Didn't we have a discussion a couple of weeks ago saying how every detail was important? If I remember correctly it was about the new Mr. Potato head and how he used the wrong kind of microphone. Shouldn't we apply the same type of scrutiny here? WDI is actually doing what we want them to do, and we're criticizing them for it.



    And how won't the trolleys work? Walt Disney Plaza will have the same width walkways as Mainstreet, and the trolleys are the only proposed form of transportation for Walt Disney Plaza, as opposed to Mainstreet's variety. So a couple wires in the air are gonna screw it all over? In case you didn't know, the parade won't be running through that area anymore... The wires aren't just a nessasary detail in my eyes, They would make the land more immersive and convincing for the time period they're aiming for.

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