Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 39
  1. #1

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,605

    Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?


    For some time now, there have been retail toys that speak or sing with mouths moving in synch.

    I have a bluebird I bought at Big!Lots (Santa Maria’s current incarnation of Pic n’ Save) which tweets when you press one button and sings Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah when you press the other. I mean, it’s very simple opening and closing of the beak movement (there’s also a simple head turning movement) but the beak is synched up with the sound.

    If this cheapie toy that’s decorating my bathroom counter can do it, why can’t the figures on Winnie-the-Pooh and Monster’s Inc.? (I feel it’s especially important on these two slow moving rides, as opposed to something like Mr. Toad, where you feel like you’re whizzing past.)

    Furthermore, my stepfather has an extensive plush Tigger collection, including some that “bounce” and look much “bouncier” looking than the stiff, plastic-looking Tigger on the ride.

    (Related tangent: I had an idea about re-doing the characters on Pooh to make them look less plastic-cartoony and more like toys come to life, which is what they were supposed to be in the first place – note the scene in “Winnie-the-Pooh and the Hunny Tree” when Pooh rips a seam while excercising, or references to Eeyore being "stuffed with sawdust.")

    (Of course, as has been brought up on other threads, there are several older dark rides that do have characters with moving mouths.)
    "Happy Working Song" parody for DCA remodel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-TYESfNTP8&feature=plcp

    Retro Rant Review of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame II" (comedy review of direct-to-video
    Disney sequel):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../1/q1j7FU8QXu0
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../0/sasNTMDRBLU

    Retro Rant Review of "Home on the Range" (comedy review of Disney movie):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mC-...feature=relmfu
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUie...feature=relmfu
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Vea...feature=relmfu


    Visit my site: http://www.vividgroovy.com



    Pratfall the albatross superheroine visits the Carthay Circle Theatre.

  2. #2

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    It's a valid point, and a good question. After all the not-so-great word-of-mouth on Monsters Inc., I was pleasantly surprised; it was a decent C-ticket. But the lack of mouth movement was problematic for me, I agree. It seems like it could have been accomplished relatively easily. Maybe they were concerned with the possibility of a cheap appearance due to the large mouths of the characters and the lack of real syncing. It's one thing to make a pirate's small, lifelike mouth move a yard or two away, but when you've got a big, cartoonish maw flapping up and down a few feet away, it could look...well, like one of the toys you're talking about.

    As far as Pooh goes, yeah...why does it look like plastic representations of hand-drawn representations of hand-sewn representations of animals? They should resemble the toys, not real-world versions of the cartoons.


  3. #3

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    170

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    I think that not only the size of the monster's mouthes creates a problem, but the way they move in the movie. Human lips may scrunch a little bit, but for the most part they stay the same shape. The monster's inc. monsters have lips that move all over the place. This would have made it look very fake to just use a simply open and shut device.
    I don't think it's an excuse for pooh though, because the characters are pretty humanoid.

  4. #4

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    818

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Its easy to make a toy move its mouth once in a while. Its hard to make something thats able to duplicate this for 3000 guest's an hour, 365 days a year.

  5. #5

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,734

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by gibbage View Post
    Its easy to make a toy move its mouth once in a while. Its hard to make something thats able to duplicate this for 3000 guest's an hour, 365 days a year.
    Disney has plenty of AAs that use mouth movement. Just look at Tom Morrow for instance.

    I think its a mix of cost and 'style'. When creating these modern dark rides they are still following in the footsteps of the 50's fantasyland attractions. I think they shy away from higher tech AAs enmass in part because of the established genre and feel set by those earlier attractions.
    Last edited by flynnibus; 05-01-2008 at 06:15 AM.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  6. #6

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    2,899

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Or maybe it's the damn budget cuts again. I hate the bean counters...

  7. #7

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    I think they shy away from higher tech AAs enmass in part because of the established genre and feel set by those earlier attractions.
    I disagree. For me, the real tone of Disneyland is set by the high-end AAs, not the low-end ones, and I would be very sad to see WDI stick with low-tech models simply for the sake of avoiding progress.


  8. #8

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    313

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    When creating these modern dark rides they are still following in the footsteps of the 50's fantasyland attractions. I think they shy away from higher tech AAs enmass in part because of the established genre and feel set by those earlier attractions.
    I would have to agree that this is probably true. Even parts of Splash Mountain avoid lip sync (I think the only reason this one has lip articulation on many of the characters is because they were already designed as AA when they were in America Sings. The Brer characters don't). I don't nececesarily think that it's a lack of modivation to improve that keeps them from adding lip motion. I believe that it is part of the style of these rides. Experiencing these attractions to me are like taking a ride into a large 3D pop-up book with an audio soundtrack. Adding too much articulation to these style rides could make them too "real" and spoil the fantasy a little bit.

    Another point is that I don't really believe that any of the fantasyland style dark rides use AA technology at all (i.e. Having the evil queen in snow white turn around isn't AA, it's just a static character on a wheel that is most likely triggered when the car hits a certain point on the track). This major difference is the reason why I don't catagorize POTC and HM with the other Dark rides in the parks. Those two rides are designed to transport you to a believable place where Real Pirates or Ghosts are all around you. The articulation of AA gives the characters the impression of life (Or afterlife) so that you to a degree actually believe that the Pirate Auctioneer is a real man or that the ghosts in the ballroom are throwing a real party. the Fantastland dark rides arn't meant to make the characters "real". Rather, they are meant to bring the stories to life instead and the static nature of the characters help that perception.

    Just my Opinion
    Last edited by Mike_M; 05-01-2008 at 08:22 AM.
    Mike_M

    Disneyland Trips
    1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
    1990, 1992, 1993
    2006, 2007, 2009
    2010, 2011, 2014

    Walt Disney World
    2000, 2001

  9. #9

    • Blind to His Own Faults
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Near
    Posts
    8,071

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Lest we all forget the ticket designations. I think Flynnie has the right idea here. As Data says: Monsters, Inc. was a 'decent C-ticket'. Back in the gool ol' days ( ) there were monetary prices attached to those letter designations. C-ticket costs less to ride, therefore a lesser strata of attraction. It's inherent 'value' was less, and expectations were lower. I do not believe this necessarily was an indictment of the attraction's entertainment value, just it's place in relation to the pantheon of Park offerings. Tradition seems to dictate that 'kiddie' DRs keep a consistent standard to the original C-ticket FL offerings. I kind of like that tradition .

  10. #10

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,241

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_M View Post
    Another point is that I don't really believe that any of the fantasyland style dark rides use AA technology at all (i.e. Having the evil queen in snow white turn around isn't AA, it's just a static character on a wheel that is most likely triggered when the car hits a certain point on the track).
    This is a very valid point. Snow White doesn't move... she just stands there. The Evil Queen is just on a rotating platform. Peter Pan and Hook juggle a bit forward and back ward as they fight but their arms are not moving and articulating at all.

    These aren't AA's, they are 3d standups. The same is true of Monsters, Inc. They are on wheeled platforms to move forward and backward and they don't articulate. Boo moves her arms and hits Randal with a bat, but that's about it. Pooh and friends jump up and down but that is a simple little hydraulic lift, not AA technology.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  11. #11

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,734

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    These aren't AA's, they are 3d standups. The same is true of Monsters, Inc. They are on wheeled platforms to move forward and backward and they don't articulate. Boo moves her arms and hits Randal with a bat, but that's about it. Pooh and friends jump up and down but that is a simple little hydraulic lift, not AA technology.
    You both make a valid point - but I think the underlying question is 'why isn't this AA tech in the dark rides' - and I think the answer to that is purely the intended scale of the attraction and the established genre.

    The later dark rides use more three dimensional models where the earlier FL rides relied more heavily on flats. That is an advancement that still maintains a quaint feel vs. full realistic sets. They intend to convey the feeling and sense of the location without trying to convince you it is EXACTLY that location. It's an artistic choice - not necessarily a technology choice. I think the figures and models used follow some of that same thinking. And of course 'swab's description puts a bit of a formal angle on what I was trying to convey - the scale (and the associated cost) of the attraction are targeted to how they will be used in the park.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  12. #12

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,679

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    well both of those attraction were done on a small budget. Monsters Inc re-used many of the already available simple 3d figures that were built for what was suppose to be a fast dark ride when Superstart Limo was designed and built.

    These adrak rides soemtimes have lots of characters and fully functional AA's could be quiet expensive to built.



    With that said they should had at least had some of the more obvious characters with mouth movement. The attraction would have benefit from having mouth movement on at least a couple of the large 3d characters.

  13. #13

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,241

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    [...]but I think the underlying question is 'why isn't this AA tech in the dark rides' - and I think the answer to that is purely the intended scale of the attraction and the established genre.
    This is very true. We did kind of shy away from the actual question at hand, and I think you answered it very well.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  14. #14

    • RCMC BlackSmith
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    12 hours from the World...
    Posts
    2,290

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    I know this is kind of off topic (but still about characters and mouth moving) when I was recently at WDW, I saw the stage show in front of the castle with Mickey and Minnie and the villians. In the show, the characters in the costumes mouths moved and eyes blinked. I didnt think it looked too good. Anyone else notice this and agree?
    Around here, however, we don't look backwards for very long. We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things... and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." -Walt Disney

  15. #15

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,533

    Re: Moving their mouths: Toys can do it – why can’t dark ride figures?

    STROMBOLI in the Pinocchio dark ride has flappin lips.

    The Flowers and Doorknob of the ALICE IN WONDERLAND ride do too.

    Roz, and many other monsters in the Pixar Play Parade have moving mouths.



    This can be done! It doesn't have to be realistic. They just need SOMEthing. Especially for a slow moving ride like Pooh or Monsters inc.


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. I Have Original Figures from Small World Ride
    By bellaroxy in forum Merchandise Buy/Sell/Trade
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-04-2009, 08:24 AM
  2. I Have Original Figures from Small World Ride
    By bellaroxy in forum Disney Collectables
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-30-2009, 11:47 AM
  3. [Question] What is a dark ride/thrill ride/coaster/flume ride/interactive ride?
    By Mojave in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-31-2008, 02:16 AM
  4. Moving Mouths & Eyes on Florida Characters (Merged threads)
    By Lost Boy in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 01-21-2007, 07:54 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •