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    Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure


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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    Introduction:

    As many of you know, I am extremely interested in the future of DCA and frequently make posts related to the subject. As someone who has been a lifetime fan of WDI and has an architecture background, I am always thrilled to see a new Disney construction project, especially one of this magnitude.

    I have been meaning to summarize my thoughts about the direction of the park in one thread, so that I can simply put all of armchair imagineering ideas into one place as a reference for others, and for my own enjoyment of course. This is going to be a long post, I’m sorry for that, but I have a lot to say and a lot of suggestions, I know that there are definitely a few who will appreciate reading all of it.

    Basically, the focus of this thread is my interpretation of the new theme of the park and my suggestions for the layout of the park, which I think can best support the theme. I think that California is not, or should not, be seen as too limiting, and I like the direction that WDI is taking with the park thematically. I have some suggestions of how that theme can be interpreted, it might be a slight tweaking of how WDI sees it, but I’m pretty sure they don’t completely have a unified vision anyway.

    I will point out where I find flaws in the proposed execution of phase 2, and how I would complete the park with a phase 3+. I have chosen to, for the most part, base all of my recommendations on basically assuming that the work of phase 2 will go on; I only suggest some very minor changes. I will tell why I would change these minor aspects of phase two, and how with my suggested additions of phase 3, could make DCA a great park.

    Last before I actually get started, I wanted to note that many of the ideas presented are not solely my own, I have borrowed suggestions from WDI, micechatters and other sources. I have included a quick sketch to help illustrate some of my points; I hope it will help you to visualize the ideas. So now that I have gotten all that preliminary stuff out of the way, on with the show.

    The Theme:

    As I said before, I don’t think the California theme is limiting and I think it is potentially a great theme for a theme park. I do however believe that the execution of theme, the way the park was originally done, was horrible. The “postcard” of California idea was terrible, it totally ignored what makes Disneyland great and there is nothing magical about it.In reading about the new plans for DCA, I was actually struck by the brilliance of how they were going to change the image of this park. Clearly, there are still a few creative individuals at WDI with a vision of what this park could become. I was excited about the way that they were going to add Walt to the park and how it was going to have a historic feel. I think this has incredible potential, as so many of us Californians, who the park needs to appeal to more, still feel a profound connection to Walt and his dreams. I also felt very positive about the way that the California framework would remain, but be transformed into a stylized vision of the state at various time periods that will connect with our collective conscious. This is a vision that actually shares a tremendous connection with DL, and I think is a vision that has enormous potential.

    DL’s theme is essentially a fantasy vision of the US and its culture, it tells the story of America’s western and Midwestern past, its connection to European culture and its fables, the adventuresome spirit of its citizens and its creativity and potential for the future. It’s actually a fairly complex and subtle message created through these on the surface seemingly unrelated locales, but it all comes together and feels right nonetheless.

    I believe that DCA can potentially become this same type of vision, set in the context of California and its history and people. If, and this is a very important if, this vision is executed correctly, it could be an amazing park, one worthy of being next to its legendary older sister.

    I also like the new thematic direction because I think this theme can be very easily broadened to encompass what young Walt might have imagined California to be like; then the park as a whole starts to make some sense. It’s like a fictional reality, based on the visions of possibility, the dream, and the meaning that drew Walt to California, and in turn, what the “California Dream” means to people everywhere.

    This allows for the timeline to be stretched and played with a little bit more. Setting everything to the 20’s and 30’s literally, when Walt came to California, you limit you’re possibilities and make for more potential disharmony. Instead, I think it should be thought of like each land is a fantasy vision of a particularly important part of the history, heritage, and meaning of California interpreted through the life of the man and the stories and characters he helped bring to life. It’s actually all potentially very appealing and actually could be a perfect compliment to DL in my opinion.

    Lay of The Lands:

    One of the key ingredients to a theme park is the sense of entering a realistic feeling environment, distinctly different than your day-to-day reality, and this is one of the chief failures of DCA as a theme park. For the most part I like the way WDI is trying to define each land and give a theme to each, and I can see how each new land will start to become something special and unique.

    My suggestions primarily involve strengthening these themes, defining the lands, and suggesting a new land, which I believe would be the perfect way to finish DCA, and make it feel like a complete, unified vision. As I see it, DCA should house the following lands: Walt Disney Plaza, Hollywoodland, Grizzly Valley, Paradise Pier, Carland and my new take on an old idea, Discovery Bay.

    I will describe my take on each land and a few of the attractions that each might house, but my focus is more on the aspects of overall theme and layout of the park, which I find to be the most challenging and interesting. I will first describe my overall solutions for those issues, and then discuss each of the lands in detail.

    Hubs, Circulation and Defining Lands:

    In this section I will describe my proposed solutions for the overall layout of the park, how I would define the individual lands and provide better circulation of guests. This is the most critical aspect of my entire plan, and I would say, the biggest challenge that DCA faces.

    There are not significant problems with the layout of the Grizzly area and the Hollywood area. They will be easy to fix. Paradise pier has some big issues, but I believe it will feel somewhat cohesive with itself and it’s surroundings after its phase 2 transformation. My big concerns and my proposals primarily deal with the other areas of the park.

    Basically, I am expanding on the concept of hubs, much like they already seem to be doing. My concept however, includes pushing that concept even further, and several solutions to problems that exist that I don’t feel like WDI has really dealt with. I feel it is very important to have transitions between each land, and in cases where a land is directly connected to another, careful design must be employed in order to transition between those spaces.

    My concept is basically a kind of central three-hub system, combined with a further expansion of the Walt Disney Plaza’s feel, and an expansion of the waterways of the park for transportation and thematic purposes. My goal is to define the character of each land and to whatever extent possible, separate that land, or smoothly transition guests between lands to better provide thematic integrity to each land.

    Walt recognized that people need a large open space where they can stand in groups and decide what they are going to do next, so the hub concept was devised. A hub also provides a perfect opportunity to transition people between lands and themes. Basically, it is still a great concept and my intent would be to strengthen that concept at DCA.

    As you can see in my sketch, the three central hubs are marked in light gray and numbered, with what I’ll call the central corridors between them designated in dark gray. The central corridors are important because they need to be able to transport guests between lands and do to the original layout of the park; they currently exist in a sort of thematic limbo and are somewhat problematic.

    Basically, each of the hubs will be located inside of the land that its in, and will provide distinct gateways into other lands. The first hub is of course Walt Disney Plaza and the third hub is the flower garden area that now will clearly be part of PP. Basically, I’m not proposing any major changes to these hubs beyond those that WDI is already planning. I would only suggest that they focus on strengthening the definition of where each land begins and give a “gateway” type of transition into other lands wherever possible. Two that I hope get special attention are the entries to Grizzly Peak from both of these two hubs.

    Basically, as I described before, my proposal involves adding a new land to the park, Discovery Bay, which would be a slightly re-imagined version of Tony Baxter’s old proposal for DL. I guess at this point I kind of need to explain why I’m doing this at least from a layout perspective.

    I see the entire farm and bugs land area as a giant thematic mess that will feel even more off-putting once the new entry is completed. I also think that the extension of Carsland into this already confused area of the park is a bad idea. I believe the best way to deal with this is to create a new land in this central area of the park that will fit thematically with what surrounds it and eliminate this, what will be the last failing remnant, of the old DCA.

    I think the Pacific Wharf area is pretty well done and will fit into the new theme of the park well. Unfortunately, with the way it’s located it really won’t have any space to expand, and doesn’t have that much to offer as a land unto itself. In my proposal, the entire area bound by the red line would all become Discovery Bay and Pacific Wharf, in Purple-pink, would remain mostly the same with possibly some small expansion into any space available near Radiator Springs Racers. Then PW would be a sub-land to Discovery Bay, which would occupy this whole central area of the park.

    The waterways would be expanded to create a continuous body of water connecting Paradise Pier to all of Discovery Bay as shown roughly by the dark blue line. The purpose of this is two fold, first, obviously Discovery Bay needs to be on a bay and, second this will provide a form of transportation, which will also add to the experience throughout the park.

    As you can see hub 4, marked in gray, is the end of the new red car route and will end in Discovery Bay. There would be a gateway there to Hollywoodland, which both people and the red car would enter through. Located near this hub, you will notice on my sketch that there is a hot-pink dot. That dot is one of three; one is also located near hub 2, and one is near the west end of the PP lagoon, each labeled by letter A, B, and C respectively.

    These are boat dock locations for a mini-fleet of boats that would transport people throughout the park. As you can see, this would allow someone to board a Red Car near the entry, ride to Discovery Bay, walk a short distance, then embark on a boat nearby, and end in the far side of PP. The boats would be a variety of late 18th century crafts that would feel at home throughout this entire area, and bring a sense of life and realness to all the waterways.

    Hub 2 would be a multi-level hub and entirely themed to Discovery Bay. As most of you probably know, the level of the water in the waterways is significantly lower than the ground in that area. The lower level of this hub would be where the dock is located. There is also another important part of this idea, this lower level would also serve as a path of travel for people during parades to move from the front to the back of the park.

    On the upper level, there would be two gateways to other lands and entries to both sides of Discovery Bay. The first gateway would become a transition point into the Walt Disney Plaza theme. In my sketch, in the area shown cross hatched in dark green would be a structure that on the west side would be a continuation of the LA ‘20’s theme and on the east side would be Discovery Bay.

    The LA street feel would be extended all the way to this hub. On the west side of the street, nothing would be changed; I would even leave the grapes. Walking from the front of the park, it would just feel like you walked up a side street that was becoming a little more rural as you walked away from the plaza. Then you would arrive eventually at this gateway that would open into hub 2 and Discovery Bay.

    The second gateway would be a bridge that would lead into Carland. This bridge would pass over the water and the lower level where the boat dock is and give a clear sense of entry to Carland. One last note on the overall layout, this layout would allow for most of the remaining land left available in the parking lot after phase 2 to be mostly used up for show buildings for attractions that could easily be related thematically to Hollywoodland, Discovery Bay or Carsland.


    The Lands:

    Walt Disney Plaza:
    I am very happy for the most part with the proposed entry and plaza. The entry is a tribute to Walt and his arrival in California much like Mainstreet USA is to his youth. My only real concern for this area is the reported removal of the Walt Disney Story. I understand TDA’s concerns about too many shows, but I don’t want the building to remain empty long.

    I have read many suggestions and think a few sound appealing. I have a vague idea that I’ve been toying with for a lavish dark ride, in which the queue would be in the extravagant Carthay Theater lobby, with large stair cases leading up to the balcony level, where you would enter your ride vehicle. The ride itself, I think should be themed to several classic Disney shorts. I don’t really have an idea exactly which shorts and exactly how all the stories would be tied together, but I think with a little thought, it could be a great ride.

    Hollywoodland:
    Again, I am pretty happy the direction that WDI is taking with this land. Hollywood PBL becomes, “Hollywoodland” no longer a back lot, which was always a stupid idea for a place with no movies being made anyway. It becomes about the image and mystique of Hollywood, set in the ‘30’s era of glitz and glamour. My only major suggestion is totally removing any aspects of backstage theme and fully embracing the vintage theme.

    I think a Great Movie ride with new scenes would be a great addition. I also would suggest some minor improvements to Monsters Inc. I would re-theme the exterior of the building and the queue to fit the 30’s feel and then add a first scene where you pass through a door into Monstropolis.

    Grizzly Valley:
    Basically, my suggestions for Grizzly Rec. area are that it is combined with Condor Flats as WDI has suggested that they will do, and rename it Grizzly Valley. Then it can explore the themes of nature, the pioneering of California, and the Gold Rush. I like the ideas for the removal of the extreme sports overlay to GRR and aging it and adding some animals. I also like the idea of some sort of train attraction that has supposedly been discussed at WDI.

    I also had an idea for a haunted mine ride, to eventually replace the BB play area. However, I do think that the area needs some stuff for little ones, and I’m not sure there would really be sufficient space for the ride I’m envisioning, so I’m not sure about this idea. It could also possibly fit in on the outskirts of Discovery Bay.

    Paradise Pier:
    Paradise Pier becomes a fantasy vision of turn of the century beach culture, seaside amusements and boardwalks. I’m sure these types of places must have fascinated Walt in his youth, before he saw how dirty and lackluster their reality was later as an adult. I think the new pier will fit the overall park’s feel and theme well, despite the critics.

    Basically, I like the direction that WDI is taking with this land. I just have a few suggestions on ways that the land might be improved. The area shown in my sketch in light greenish-blue would unofficially become the “fantasyland” of DCA. They are already going in this direction somewhat, and I think it should be reinforced, particularly because my plan does call for the removal of BugsLand. I would add two more dark rides to the area, as well as some other attractions for kids. I would also replace the Goofy Sky School with a fully enclosed Crush’s Coaster, unless the Goofy Ride is a major upgrade over MM and worth keeping.

    My other major suggestion would be for the area in the dark turquoise color on the west end of PP. Here I would put a Villains Lair ride that many other people have suggested. It would be themed to look like a decaying Victorian palace on top of a spooky looking rock outcropping. It would be a “tunnel of love” type of flume-coaster hybrid ride with boats a little bigger than a log type ride with a big drop outside the building that would splashdown into the lagoon.

    Carland:
    I have some issues with Carsland, so I suggest it instead be, Carland, which I think it still may become. I really think they need to emphasize car culture more than the movie, but they are supposedly moving in the right direction on this. The loss of the Drive-In bothers me, but in my plan it would actually free up space that I would devote instead to Discovery Bay.

    To better define the boarders of Carland, I would not build the Tow Mater Ride and as I said before, that area would be devoted to Discovery Bay. It just is overkill on the Cars movie theme anyway, and not supportive of the theme the land should take. I would suggest eventually adding a Herbie attraction and adding back the drive-in theater in the expansion area that will still remains in the parking lot.

    Discovery Bay:
    As I said, this is land that was initially proposed by Tony Baxter for DL. I believe it would fit well into the surroundings that it would have and the overall theme and feel of the park. Basically, the original featured several potential attractions that all sound great and it could house rides that easily go beyond the timeline and shores of California. The real beauty of this land is that it would fit into the DCA even better than DL. DB would bring a sense of adventure and a real presence for San Francisco in the park during its exciting post-Gold Rush era. I also think that the elevation changes that I described earlier, could be used to really give that SF feel and create some beautiful vistas in the areas.

    My idea would be that the theming near Walt Disney plaza would start out with some architecturally Spanish style buildings near the Carthay Theater, possibly a small “presidio” area. As you transitioned into the land, you would come across the Chinatown area and feature the fireworks factory attraction. As you wrap around the bay there would be set-place ships and grand gaming halls and restaurants and then you would transition into the rest of the quirky scientific aspects of the bay. Across the bay, in the area shown in grayish-green, would be a major E-ticket and a dramatic wienie that would draw you into the land, possibly Tony Baxter’s grand Western Hot Air Balloon Ride.

    Conclusion:
    Well if you made it this far, I thank you for reading everything I had to say. I plan to keep updating this thread and further refining these ideas and I would love to hear any suggestions you might have. This plan also ties very much into my concept for the third gate and I would eventually like to do a similar thread about my ideas for that park, so look for that in the future.

  3. #3

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    The only thing I disagree with is the Fantasyland section. Disneyland is the place for the fantasy area. The Little Mermaid sort of fits, but adding Crush's Coaster next to it just seems like overkill. Also, I don't think people realize that Crush's Coaster isn't a type of ride you can slap onto an existing ride. If they put a crush overlay on Mulholland Madness, it'll feel so half done that it's ridiculous. If Disney hadn't built the new DVC wing behind Mulholland, then we could have had room for Crush. I say leave it to Goofy for now, the classic characters need their due too. The last time Mickey and friends were the center of attention in a ride was 1993. Goofy and Donald don't even have a worthwhile attraction. Goofy deserves something better than a kiddie playground. Heck, all of the Disney Characters deserve more than that. I would keep the area from Mailboomer to Little Mermaid as their equivalent to ToonTown, with a Walt-era cartoon theme. Add the Silly Symphony Swings where Orange Stinger is, Remove the Maliboomer and replace with an Oswald-themed parachute tower, Remove Jumpin Jellyfish and replace with standing area for World of Color and some nice landscaping, and replace Golden Zephyr with the lighthouse-themed control tower for WoC with an animatronic of Donald popping up to survey the area and perhaps say a few things. The rest of your ideas are great though.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    I like your ideas as well, I realize what you're saying about Crush's Coaster, I am aware it's a larger indoor attraction and would not retheme MM or GSS but totally replace them. I just thought it fit the underwater theme that would go nicely with TLM. I agree that Goofy deseverves his own ride though. I just don't want it to be a cheesy overlay to an existing attraction, like I said, if it's something worthwhile, I'd keep it.

    In regard to the overall fantasy feel for that area of the park, I think we have simmilar ideas actually, and maybe the word "fantasy" was going a bit far and possibly confused you to what I was thinking.

    Primarily my point was to focus this area on providing more for little ones to do, so that beyond a few attractions spread around the park they have an area where the rides are more focused on them, like FL is at DL. I do like what I've heard so far about the Walt era cartoon overlay, but I don't think its incompatible with any of my ideas really.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    That area is also a pretty minor aspect of my overall plan, so I wouldn't have any issue with some different ideas being done in that area. I just wanted to make sure the kids got something back for losing ABL.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    I think you've got it right on the money! Carland sounds better than Carsland. As you said, I also like the way DCA is going. I think these renovations and changes will make a huge difference in the overall aspect of the park itself. As to if it will attract more guests... I think, maybe a few more.
    Around here, however, we don't look backwards for very long. We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things... and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    AI-
    Thanks! I think phase 1 will undoubtedly be very successful, there should be some major excitement and publicity generated from the opening of Carsland and the premiere of Cars2. I do think many more guests will visit DCA. Despite this, I still think some of these structural issues of the park will need to be addressed before DCA becomes a park really worthy of being next to DL and strong enough to really make DLR a true resort.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    Another issue I have with the Tow Mater ride, that I just remembered to mention, is the idea of locating a junk yard so prominately and centrally in the park. This is a horrible idea. It honestly sounds like something one of the imagineers through out there as a joke and someone was like, ooh, that's great, and the idea stuck. I'm not sure if they are trying to make a statement about DCA or the state but it just sounds like a bad idea on many levels.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    Update:

    I also wanted to add a few notes regarding the Screamin' Queue redo. I recently discussed this issue and have a few new possible ideas on this. I guess I didn't really talk about this because it's something that should be addressed soon anyway, but I'll add my ideas here.

    I think that they should move the queue for screamin' into the east helix and create a large building which would encompass the old queue, the Screamin' loading area, parts of the new queue and some backstage area. The old queue and the backstage area would be given to a fun house attraction. The new building would be themed to a Victorian fun house, simmilar to TSMM, but maybe a little more quirky and fun, and both rides would have this theme. The building would also be pretty tall as to help block out views of the convention center and hotels outside the park.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    Uncle Bob, I think the queue idea for screamin, might help a little with the view, but from what i could remember i could see the con. center over the eastern helix of screamin, from the little mermaid grotto restaurant area. whatever's going to block the outside world is going to have to be big. So Probably a large attraction like you said would definitely do a better job.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    uncle bob, i looked at your plans for DCA and surprisingly, i had some similar ideas in my head. My layout was different and I had some different lands though. I'm just telling you this because when I finish my designs, rides, and layouts, I don't want you to think I copied you.
    I like your plan though and although I have other things in mind, it would definitely work and is a great idea.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    FI-
    Thanks! I definitely know that you have suggested a lot of good ideas and I wouldn't be surprised at all to find many simmilar aspects to our ideas, we are trying to redesign the same existing park using simmilar new theme ideas. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    thanks, and one thing i found as i redesigned the park was there are many things and themes that could be created that would fit in the California theme. I sure you think the same way but I just heard from too many people how "california" was such a poor theme that not many ideas could be created. It's just not true.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    Definitely agree, there's a lot of ways to start with a California theme and move in other directions, the important part it that it connects with people on a somewhat subliminal level, so they inherantly understand how it relates to California. Appealing to nostalgia and ideas that are easily indentifiable and part the collective conciousness are excellent ways to so this. (Cheesy recreations of well known existing icons randomly thrown together fails completely in this regard.) This is something WDI seemed to completely ignore in the original plans of DCA and that is really a big part of why the park failed IMO. I don't see it as an inherent failure of the theme, but rather as a failure in the execution of the theme.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Re-imagined California Adventure

    that's a very good way to put it, the execution could have been much better.

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