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  1. #46

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    The original artwork for these murals has to be somewhere,I seriously doubt that Mary Blair hand glazed,fired and set all the tile herself.This is indeed a fine work but out of place where it exists.Wouldnt it be nice if the park could recreate the murals and place them near IASW where they would truley fit the feel of the area and be appreciated once again by guests old and new???

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspider
    maybe, but I haven't seen retro future being that popular,
    We've lost the same sense of optomisim we had in the 50's and 60's. Why do you think "retro" (the most overused word at the moment) is in? I think we're trying to understand just WHY we were so very optomistic then and regain that look and feel.



    And Retro Future not popular? The Incredibles anyone - and they did it will great success. Future is old hat, retro is in. Let's take that cue and do it with TL.


    You know, back then, we were excited about where we were going. Now that we're here, we're confused and dumbfounded. We don't know what to do. How can we build a land around that?

  3. #48

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    I seriously doubt that Mary Blair hand glazed,fired and set all the tile herself.
    Actually from what I hear she did hand glaze every tile herself, the only thing she had help with if I am correct, was placing the tiles on the wall.

    She also did another tile mural for one of the childrens hospitals in the area, that she indeed did create and glaze every single tile herself. Unfortunatley last I heard that mural was destroyed in a redo of the hospital wing; they tried to remove the tiles, but short of actually sawing out a piece of the wall it was impossible. The tiles were basically cemented into place and the chemical bonding over the years made it pretty permanent. I am guessing that same thing happened at Disneyland; the tiles were made so permanent the only way to remove them is to remove parts of the actual building.

    There appears to be no choice; preserve a artist's work of art that was very important the Disney company by spending money to actually cut pieces of the building away, or destroy one of the last remaining tile murals of her art. I think one of the only remaining mural besides disneyland is the one in the contemporary hotel in WDW, pretty sure almost every other mural she did has been destroyed.

    IF there was a way to be completely sure they could move the mural without destroying it, I would be all for moving it by small world. But they said they could safely move the pirate ship as well, and we all know what happened there.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Afraid
    We've lost the same sense of optomisim we had in the 50's and 60's. Why do you think "retro" (the most overused word at the moment) is in? I think we're trying to understand just WHY we were so very optomistic then and regain that look and feel.



    And Retro Future not popular? The Incredibles anyone - and they did it will great success. Future is old hat, retro is in. Let's take that cue and do it with TL.


    You know, back then, we were excited about where we were going. Now that we're here, we're confused and dumbfounded. We don't know what to do. How can we build a land around that?
    I see the increadibles as being old school comic based but it's more of a today theme then a tomorrow theme


    and Tomorrowland has already TRIED retro and it's failing, it's also very limiting in the TYPE of attractions Disney wants to add

    we need to look at doing a fantasy Spaceport theme, that has been shown to work and that is also the type of attractions that are being installed

    I don't mind a few retro hints but it needs to look futuristic

    even a future in the present would be better then retro future if you ask me (future in the present is the type of thing they do in Stargate SG1/Atlantis)

    I've always been a futurist type person and that really hasn't changed about myself so I dislike people giving up on it

    but wow we're really getting away from the subject of the Murals I suppose I could say that I like the Star Tours mural and that it does match the fantasy spaceport theme that I think should be added to the rest of the land and enhanced

    but I still retain the murals don't belong

  5. #50

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    As far as the ridiculous concept of the murals not fitting Tomorrowland, I believe Whitney sang it best... "I believe the children are the future..."

    What better place to reinforce such an idea that Disney's Tomorrowland?

    I'm not as horrified by the new mural as I am by the cheap, ham-handed Star Tours mural that looks straight out of Industrial Art 101. But, like most of TL 98, it is too backward-looking to classify as "retro." Instead of saying, "Look how good this was years ago. Won't it still be great today?" the way retro does, that mural screams, "Look how good things were years ago, and remember that they will never be this good again." Big difference.

    I think two things should have happened with these murals, and should happen for any similar projects in the future. First, no piece of history should be destroyed willy-nilly; there is a mandate that anything that must make way for progress is actually relinquishing its place to something BETTER. Second, if the replacement really is better, make every effort to appeal to preservationists for help in securing a new home for such artifacts. If it means sawing down a wall, let preservationists saw down the blinkin' wall, at their own cost. If no one's interested, then demolish at will, but it's hard to imagine that a legitimate piece of Disney history couldn't find benefactors willing to pay the price for preserving the stuff of their dreams.
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  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by ModHatter
    <Snip> I think two things should have happened with these murals, and should happen for any similar projects in the future. First, no piece of history should be destroyed willy-nilly; there is a mandate that anything that must make way for progress is actually relinquishing its place to something BETTER. Second, if the replacement really is better, make every effort to appeal to preservationists for help in securing a new home for such artifacts. If it means sawing down a wall, let preservationists saw down the blinkin' wall, at their own cost. If no one's interested, then demolish at will, but it's hard to imagine that a legitimate piece of Disney history couldn't find benefactors willing to pay the price for preserving the stuff of their dreams.
    If they offered it for sale, they would have gotten someone to buy it. It's a true P.T. Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute" thing. If Disney can sell thousands of spare miniature christmas-tree lightbulbs in a fancy box (MSEP) and the fiberglass shells of old ride vehicles, they can sell a pile of used decorated ceramic tiles.

    Even if they'd have put it up on E-bay Disney Auctions with a pile of conditions - "As Is", and with some tiles probably broken during removal from the wall - though we'll give you all the pieces for the ones that break. And cleaning the mortar and stucco off the back of the tiles is your problem...

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  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigertail777
    Actually from what I hear she did hand glaze every tile herself, the only thing she had help with if I am correct, was placing the tiles on the wall.

    She also did another tile mural for one of the childrens hospitals in the area, that she indeed did create and glaze every single tile herself. Unfortunatley last I heard that mural was destroyed in a redo of the hospital wing; they tried to remove the tiles, but short of actually sawing out a piece of the wall it was impossible. The tiles were basically cemented into place and the chemical bonding over the years made it pretty permanent. I am guessing that same thing happened at Disneyland; the tiles were made so permanent the only way to remove them is to remove parts of the actual building.

    There appears to be no choice; preserve a artist's work of art that was very important the Disney company by spending money to actually cut pieces of the building away, or destroy one of the last remaining tile murals of her art. I think one of the only remaining mural besides disneyland is the one in the contemporary hotel in WDW, pretty sure almost every other mural she did has been destroyed.

    IF there was a way to be completely sure they could move the mural without destroying it, I would be all for moving it by small world. But they said they could safely move the pirate ship as well, and we all know what happened there.
    absolutley amazing to think one individual did all the work, thanks for pointing out the error and my personal ignorance as to the scope of the work. Regardless, the damage is done and in the case of the star tours side cannot be undone or repaired. The best that could be hoped for is to relocate what is left to a new longer lasting location. Tomorrowland will probably remain one of the most changing lands of the park because tomorrows vision changes on todays whim. It was one of the least completed areas of the park at open and always seems to be in some weird changing limbo that never seems to end.
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  8. #53

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    One of the "Wonderful World of Color" specials, the 10th anniversary I believe (edit: it was "Pirates of the Carribean to the World of Tomorrow" episode, recording the opening of Tomorrowland 1967), shows very clearly a group of artists transferring Mary's drawings from a full-scale rendering to 12-inch square tiles.

    That has always been proof positive to me that Mary had a heck of a lot of help doing those murals. Not that it really matters; it's her art either way, and it's a shame to lose it.
    Last edited by NWRREngineer; 02-24-2005 at 09:34 AM.
    "Say, uh, ever hear of the devil's paint pots? Real mystery of the desert. Bubblin' pots of mud in all kinds of colors."

  9. #54

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    "LCD technology is hard to get into large format"

    Well, this is not true. If you've been to Times Square in New York City, then you'll know that giant large format LCD screens are indeed possible, and actually availible in High Definition. In fact, on one of our local NYC public TV stations, they did a spotlight news story on these new LCD screens and how they are the future of advertising. Once you see just how colorful and vivid they can look even during the brightest day, then you'll know that's true. I can totally see this kind of technology being used in place of the murals, and it is a good way to have an ever changing look.

    As for the Mary Blair murals. First, I was just about to post what NWRREngineer posted. I watched that episode just the other day and I saw that scene where lots of people were helping to put the murals together. It would have taken Mary forever to do it all herself, and this television special proves on film that she indeed did not do it alone.

    As to the content of the murals; count me as one that never felt they belonged in Tomorrowland. Even as a kid I always associated them with It's a Small World. Yes, they were pretty to look at, but as a kid I never understood what was futuristic about them. I do understand the "children are the future" bit, but I think something new should be done instead of trying to restore the mural. I still think it's an amazing piece of art, and maybe can be recreated someplace else, but it does have a very dated look. I'm also not at all fond of the Star Tours or Tomrrowland '98 murals. They both look tacky and cheap to me. I would love to see either the LCD screens or maybe some new kind of tile or glass installation; something with texture that sparkles and shines in the light.

  10. #55

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    Of COURSE Mary Blair has assistants working with her. Most artists did! If artwork has to be solely the wrk of the artist, then Rodin's "The Thinker" and Michaelangelo's "David" would be a group effort.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by gurgi
    "LCD technology is hard to get into large format"

    Well, this is not true. If you've been to Times Square in New York City, then you'll know that giant large format LCD screens are indeed possible, and actually availible in High Definition. In fact, on one of our local NYC public TV stations, they did a spotlight news story on these new LCD screens and how they are the future of advertising. Once you see just how colorful and vivid they can look even during the brightest day, then you'll know that's true. I can totally see this kind of technology being used in place of the murals, and it is a good way to have an ever changing look.
    I said hard to get, I didn't say impossible

    recently there HAS been a new wave of larger LCD screens on the market, that doesn't change the fact that the larger it gets the more difficult it becomes to produce

    I wasn't aware that those giant TV's were LCD's I always figured they were rear projection especialy considering the fact that they've been around so long, I also know that you can build them out of many many TV's in conjunction with each other (though that would also be difficult since LCD's tend to have a bit of dead space extending from them)

    I'd be interested in reading an article about it if you have a link to such a thing

    I've got mixed feelings on the LCD murals idea, I just think they should do more complex space type art with lighting effects at night for now

    I still don't mind the Star Tours mural (I do dislike the TL98 mural) but I do suppose it could be visualy enhanced, maybe witha Mellinium falcon or whatnot instead of those square Star Tours vehicals

  12. #57

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    You know what, I was wrong about LCD. I appologize for mixing it up, but it's LED that I meant. They are totally different, and I think that the large LED displays could be used at Disneyland. Currently the largest LCD displays are around 42 inches and are being manufactured by Sony and Samsung, I believe. The LED displays are much, much larger, and those are the ones that grace Times Square. Here is a link to the company that is responsible for most of them.
    http://www.billboardvideo.com/index.htm
    Again, I'm sorry, I was the one who confused LCD with LED. I still wouldn't mind seeing two big LED displays as long as the images were interesting and not used to promote other Disney products or generic commercials. They should only be images, not ads.

  13. #58

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    Examples of some of their work is here.

    http://www.billboardvideo.com/gallery/main_gallery.htm

  14. #59

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    Yeah, Disney pass up on an advertising opportunity? That will happen once in never!
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    this is my first buzzed post in the DMCA -- I'm really in this club because I'm a bitch more than anything. I've only had to hit the backspace 4 (oops, make that 5) times in (now 7) in this (now 9) (now 15) in this post! Damn, now I'm up to 18! Our neighbors were (19) (20) making tequilla sunrises. I thought I couldn't do tequilla (22) anymore but (24) this stuff (26) was good! It started (27) with an s



  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by gurgi
    You know what, I was wrong about LCD. I appologize for mixing it up, but it's LED that I meant. They are totally different, and I think that the large LED displays could be used at Disneyland. Currently the largest LCD displays are around 42 inches and are being manufactured by Sony and Samsung, I believe. The LED displays are much, much larger, and those are the ones that grace Times Square. Here is a link to the company that is responsible for most of them.
    http://www.billboardvideo.com/index.htm
    Again, I'm sorry, I was the one who confused LCD with LED. I still wouldn't mind seeing two big LED displays as long as the images were interesting and not used to promote other Disney products or generic commercials. They should only be images, not ads.
    oooohhh yeah, I forgot about LED advertisments, I've heard about this too

    and it's ok easy misunderstanding

    I'm still not sure how good an LED display would look as close as the Murals are to the viewer but I suppose it could be done

    LED=Light Emiting Diode (the little light that shows that the power turned on in your computer is an LED as is many power on buttons, they're very energy effecient and low voltage as well as small, making a display out of a string of LED's is about equivilant to making a screen out of dozens of tiny lightbulbs)

    LCD=Liquid Crystal Display, LCD's use electronic volts to change the form of liquid cystals incide the display, the different crystals form defract light in different ways thus creating color

    other monitor technology's are CRT (Cathode Ray tube) and Plasma

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