Hey, I'll take sexism over Imperialism any day. Sexism can be pointed out, decried and with time and patience amended. Imperialism can lead to everlasting war, genocide, and the permanent loss of entire cultures.
Man, that got heavy fast.
My main point, that it's not all right to treat forced sexual contact humorously in front of a young audience, has already been attended to by Disney. I'm just trying to defend their decision.
And as for the Redhead -- at least we know that her character prevailed over the auction scene in time.
I'm probably an idiot to step into this ring of fire, but...
The core issue is the human propensity to depict terrible things artistically, for entertainment, and without apparent moralizing. Come on, folks, let's cut through the crap. The pirates are being bad. They've got more on their minds than a few smoochies.
Perfectly normal, morally healthy people go on POTC and HM, and take their kids too, and they find it amusing, interesting, and entertaining. Practically no one asks, "Wait, what are we doing? We're making light of murder, torture, theft, arson, suicide, premature interment...and we may as well throw rape on the list and stop splitting hairs.
Two defenses that don't hold up are: (1) Well, it's historical reality, so let's not sugarcoat it. Ptthhh. Why don't you show a pirate actually cutting someone's throat, then? (2) Well, there is moralizing in there. The grotto shows you in advance what that kind of life leads to. See kids, pillage and plunder and you'll end up on a beach with a sword in your back. Ptthhh again. Most of those skeletons look like they went out in style, and this was 200 years ago, so OF COURSE they're dead. They'd be equally skeletal if they were all saints.
But for the naysayers, be careful what you're asking for. Rape isn't funny. Neither is suicide. Neither is...oh crap, there went my Rolling Stones collection. Seems like half of modern popular art revels in portraying amoral and anti-social behavior, indulged without negative consequence (think of horror films, or nasty bad rock 'n roll). Woohoo, I'm a baaaaaad boy. People seem to get it, that this isn't that big a deal. Your id is dancing away on the screen, the CD player, or even in classic Disney rides, the dark side of you that you know you can never indulge, but is lurking back inside there, wishing he/she could cast off all constraint and do some Godzilla-stompin' damage. We find it cathartic and amusing to see it played out in a harmlessly unreal venue.
So I say let POTC be POTC. Don't try to make it something it isn't, and don't pretend it isn't what it is.
"Cinnamon toast tacos at the door."
Need subjective evidence?
1) Taco Bell sells "Choco Tacos" and once sold their "Cinnamon Chips." A delicious cinnamon toast taco would be the perfect marriage of the two.
2) Taco Bell, a property of Pepsi Co. shares many franchises with Pizza Hut. Any particular pizza restaurant sharing its property with the Mexican food-themed partner features both menus and home delivery service, thusly allowing "Cinnamon toast tacos at the door."
Okay, that was all very well-put...so that leads to the obvious question: should we feel bad by indulging in a deluge of entertainment that probably contains immoral messages? And more to the point, will this sort of entertainment influence our actions? Jack Thompson and his anti-violence-in-video-games league tends to think so, but I've murdered thousands of digital incarnations of human beings without ONCE murdering a real person. Well...okay, maybe once. Or twice. But I was really drunk.
In other words, would riding Pirates influence peoples' opinion of forced sexual contact? I can't recall ever hearing of an incident of rape and then thinking "Well, it's funny on the Disney ride...maybe I should be laughing instead of feeling sadness and outrage."
Then again, I'm exceptionally dense when it comes to symbolism in entertainment. I had never thought about that scene in...quite those terms.
I would LOVE to hear the explanation of this...
To the TS I apologize for a rather large derailment.
Long story short: she went through some tough times, but she came out a pirate in the end. From sex-slave to free sea-faring rogue. Pretty awesome triumph right there for a woman of her times. And the redhead in the painting is her, we talked about that in the beginning of this thread, didn't we? I can't even remember now.Quote:
Originally Posted by I
I'm telling ya, if you vote to censor POTC, get ready to toss your Metal albums on the bonfire, because that's where you're headed.
The logical disconnect here is that we're extrapolating possible futures of characters that are essentially frozen in time. There's no telling if the pirates would ever catch the women they pursue, and there's certainly no telling what they would do if they ever caught them. We're postulating a link between the redhead in the auction and the redhead in the painting - I like the idea a lot, but there's no telling for sure if they're the same girl. I don't think we can hold the ride accountable for actions that the characters may or may not commit in a future that will never come.
It's like Minority Report with haunted caves and singing pigs.
There are unwritten rules about how far you can go before people are repelled rather than thrilled. It's the instincts of the showman. How much is titillating, and how much is just gross? You can show pirates blasting cannons at the town, but you can't show one shooting a guy in the head. Don't ask why, it's just the way it is. We all kinda know where that line is.
The deal with POTC is that for a noteworthy segment of the population, one of those lines has moved a little, while for the rest of the population, it hasn't.
It is as simple, and as complex, as that.
Personally, I can't explain why shooting a cannon at soldiers on a wall is fun but shooting a guy in the head isn't, so that undercuts my ability to criticize someone who can swallow the burning town but can't stomach the chase scene (and please, please, let's not pretend we don't know what they've got in mind). We're all a little irrational as long as we enjoy watching any of these violent, exhibitionist fantasies play out. And we all do enjoy it, don't we?