Coming to a DCA near you... The Big Red Car!

[Steve DeGaetano]

Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman

Oh, I don't doubt that a Birney design (long wheelbase fixed axles) WILL do it, can do it, and historically has done it. The only reason I brought it up is that from a purely mechanical viewpoint it shouldn't do it - it's not the right tool for the job. You don't drive foundation pilings with a tack hammer, or do furniture upholstery with a pile driver - but they are both striking tools.

The cone shape of the wheel faces can only compensate for so much differential action, and the cars will need to negotiate some REALLY tight curves which would spread the rails way apart from the view of the axles - one-off super wide face wheelsets and a big trench in the street for them to ride down in on the inner rail of the turn, which would be a huge trip-and-fall hazard. And then there's accelerated tire wear and rail wear from the acute angles...

This is the kind of esoteric discussion we would need to have in front of a big whiteboard with a fresh pot of coffee, not trying to text it all out in a chatroom posting - we could bore everyone else to tears inside of ten minutes. (I've probably lost them already - Oh well...)

It's only an opinion, and it may well be wrong. But I'm not conceding anything without stating my case first.

--<< Bruce >>--

You don't need a whiteboard and coffee (well, maybe the coffee) to see short, rigid wheelbase vehicels negotiating EXTREMEMELY tight curves. All you need to do is go across the Esplanade and watch as the horsecars at DL round the curves at the "bottom" of the "Triangle" shaped track at Town Square.

As you can see in this photo poster earlier in this thread, the Birney cars' wheelbase is actually VERY short (contradicting your assertion that is was long). It's probably shorter than DL's horsecars.



It's not a matter of the right tool for the job--The Birney was designed for single-crewman operation (i.e., the motorman was also the fare-taking conductor). But there is a reason industrial switch engines designed to negotiate tight wharf or industrial spurs were of the four-wheel variety.

As for the Birney itself, I personally wouldn't want to see the design used at DL. It wasn't unique to the PE, and really doesn't exude the kind of massiveness that gave the "Big Red Cars" their nichkname.

Give me a scaled-down Ten any day.

[Bruce Bergman]

Steve: I've watched the horsecars at DL - and you do hear an awful lot of squealing from the wheelsets going around those curves, even at walking speeds. Now imagine a Birney trying to take the same sized curve between the DCA Animation Building and TOT - they weigh a lot more, and would have much longer overhangs at both ends and...

A scaled-down PE Ten would be the way to go. The five-window front with the curved glass on the ends and clerestory roof is the signature look of the time, plus the big head signs, double trucks, couplers, and the reversible design.

Now where are they going to put the carhouse?

--<< Bruce >>--

[techskip]

This will likely sound naive, but wouldn't it be possible to modify the birney to look like a 10 and then give it the Hollywood paintjob? Granted to the purists it would not look correct, but to the average Guest...

[Steve DeGaetano]

Originally Posted by techskip

This will likely sound naive, but wouldn't it be possible to modify the birney to look like a 10 and then give it the Hollywood paintjob? Granted to the purists it would not look correct, but to the average Guest...

Walt Disney: "Couldn't we take an old houseboat, add some gingerbread trim and a fake paddlewheel, and make it look like a Mississippi Sternwheeler? Granted, to the purists it would not look correct, but to the average guest..."

[techskip]

Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

Walt Disney: "Couldn't we take an old houseboat, add some gingerbread trim and a fake paddlewheel, and make it look like a Mississippi Sternwheeler? Granted, to the purists it would not look correct, but to the average guest..."

Point taken however off it may be... is the Mark Twain a scale or full size? Also the binery and the 10 both use the same electricical properties for propulsion so the only actual modification is appearance... you are not modifying a completely different structure or the mechanisms behind it! I honestly do not know... but I am sure a full size 10 in DCA will be out of place. So it is either problems and expense with scaling one... or simply modifying an existing binery IF the axel configuration is not a problem.

[Bruce Bergman]

Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

Walt Disney: "Couldn't we take an old houseboat, add some gingerbread trim and a fake paddlewheel, and make it look like a Mississippi Sternwheeler? Granted, to the purists it would not look correct, but to the average guest..."

Bingo. You have to follow the same path Admiral Joe Fowler did, and that is NOT a disguised houseboat - Scale it down but be as authentic as possible.

Go find the critical components factory built in the right size (Steam boiler, main engines, crank arms, steam dynamo for 120VAC, feedwater pumps, etc.) and build a 1/2 or 5/8 scale Sternwheeler steamship around them. And WHEN things break or wear out, you can get parts.

("Hello, Dixon Boiler Works? Remember that order we placed back in 1954? Good! We need a new 5 HP Scotch Marine horizontal boiler. Yes, with a flame retention oil burner and dual stacks like the original...")

And that's how they built the Main Street Vehicles - the Fire Truck and Horseless carriage are total customs with two-cylinder oilfield motors and standard axles and wheels, the Omnibuses are on modern GM truck chassis.

Same thing with any streetcars they build - you go find mass production mechanical parts you need (so replacements are available inexpensively) like complete narrow-gauge 3' wheel trucks with motors and brakes, the air compressor, the brake valves and brake stand, the control systems, the trolley poles and rollers, the window sash hardware, door and body hardware, horns, gutter bell, lighting... And the obligatory modern bits like a two-way radio and a wheelchair lift. Then you build a new 'period looking' chassis and body around all those pre-made parts.

--<< Bruce >>--