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  1. #76

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    ^He means the desert aspect of California. And if Cars is a way to bring that to the park, then I'm not complaining. As for the building rides and no land argument, well it's quite obvious Disney isn't just plopping E-Tickets in that make no sense. Cars is getting an entire land, and Little Mermaid fits in with the waterfront theme (ish, but if I recall there will be more little mermaid things in that area).
    KABLAM!

  2. #77

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by DATman View Post
    ^He means the desert aspect of California. And if Cars is a way to bring that to the park, then I'm not complaining.
    But Cars isn't set in California, yet the theme will probably be "Oh, here's Cars!" Sort of how the theme right now for Bug's Land is, "Oh, here's Bugs!" It *is* just plopped in with little real thought to how it works with the surrounding area.

    Heck, even the TOT is in the same category to me. "Hey, you're on soundstages and stuff, but oh, here's this really old hotel that is in the middle of it." Wha? It works in Flordia, since it is at the end of a street themed to the era, not an area themed to "big soundstages."

    As for the building rides and no land argument, well it's quite obvious Disney isn't just plopping E-Tickets in that make no sense. Cars is getting an entire land, and Little Mermaid fits in with the waterfront theme (ish, but if I recall there will be more little mermaid things in that area).
    Again, the transition into the land is where I see the problem. Like I said, walk through the animation building and out into a land that is full of cartoon themed rides and Cars is some of it, and okay, I get it. Walk by Tower of Terror and into Carsland, and I don't get it.

    As for the Little Mermaid, yeah, it almost makes sense... except that the setting was Europe, the rest of the area is themed like a boardwalk with carny rides, and then you're going to put her in there. Why is Little Mermaid being "normal" next to the Toy Story Toys pretending to run a Carnival? Midway Mania is the best only ride that I have ever thought was added to the park that actually plussed the theme of one of the lands, so having a serious Mermaid ride in the same place doesn't do it for me.

    And I know I'm being *way* critical on this whole thing, but I think that the Disney parks are some of the epitomes of theme park design in the World. Well, all of them except DCA and Studios in Europe.

  3. #78

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    My point was that cars, little “c”, needed to have a bigger role in DCA, as they are so inherent to California history. I also think that Cars the movie is not an appropriate theme for a whole land, but RSR is a perfect way to use that franchise in a way that will actually bring many things that DCA needs, so that I think that will be a strong ride. I also think the plans for Carsland are pretty complete, and it’s not just throwing in an E-ticket randomly. It is a complete land, and the fact that it is themed so much to Cars the movie doesn’t completely bother me because I can see that the land could very easily lose some of its movie ties and transform into a land that fits the overall theme of California if the Cars franchise loses popularity.

    The basics of a Disney quality land will be there, and the details will fill in over time and can change the focus of this land pretty easily from the movie to Car culture more broadly. The other smaller rides are throw-aways, IMO, and probably won’t and likely are not even intended to last the test of time. They will likely get replaced eventually and other things will make Cars be a feature of the land but not the whole thing by any means.

    What my point was about the place making was the effort to deal with many of the other issues you point out, that clearly will still need to be dealt with, can be dealt with over time more easily as small projects even if the budget isn’t there to do it all now. A gateway that makes sense, and helps transition you from ToT into CL will be important, I agree. I also think the themeing of Hollywood needs to consistently reflect 1930’s Hollywood and no longer have a backlot feel.

    There are many other things that need to be done, but they if they have to wait so that every dollar can go to making the new entry and CL and the new PP awesome, then I can wait on some of the other things that also are important, but can wait if the money’s not there to fix them properly now. I would guess they’ll need to put another billion after this one to really fix the park completely, but I think baring our country falling into the third world I think that will happen eventually. Really that will still put the budget under TDS even despite all the wasted money for things that will be removed that should have never been done in the first place.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  4. #79

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    I kind of get what you mean about cars (little c) more, but at the same time the culture of cars in California isn't any different than the rest of the country, as far as I can tell. Other than the smog rolls back in on the Cali area, while it dissipates a little better elsewhere.

    A land themed about car culture itself would only make sense in my opinion in Detroit.

    As for the consistent themes coming late, I just feel that is what the "other" parks do already. Cedar Point is a perfect example -- they 'theme' a huge E-ticket attraction to Drag Racing, but it is *just* that attraction that is drag racing. They theme a big attraction to a transport system with a problem, but it is just plopped down in the middle of the park with no reason. Oh, and a bunch of rides that are just steel dropped down where ever. And over there is Snoopy and his land. Oh, and some Western stuff randomly too.

    The point is that Cedar Point is often regarded as the world's best thrill park, but no one would ever argue that it has a cohesive theme. If you don't go there wanting to ride some incredible roller coasters, there really isn't a reason to go.

    Dropping in things like Carsland and whatnot before fixing the placemaking errors that have already occurred is, in my opinion, not fixing the ultimate problem of the place, which is that it has no cohesive theme to begin with.

    Hopefully, I explained myself well that time

  5. #80

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    GD-
    I see your point and can definitely understand that arguement. I disagree about car culture in California though, and I think the desert setting is also and important aspect. Route 66, roadside attractions, freeways, drive-in restaurants and movies, hot rods, and other things are all rightly associated with california car culture and I think can be handled in a very nostalgic and Disney way if they do it right. That would fit in with the new vision for DCA perfectly.

    Like I said, I do understand your point. It might be smarter in some ways to do what you suggest and fix the problems in the existing park before expanding. On the other hand, I can completely understand why Disney wants to do it this way. It's easy to market a new land, a new thrilling E-ticket, a new dark ride based on a very popular animated feature and a new nightime spectacular. It's pretty hard to market it's got a cohesive theme, a better layout and it's a lot prettier.

    In the long term, those are probably more important to the success of the park, but they do have to generate excitement about this park. They need to deal with those issue clearly, and I hope they do a good job of that and do it soon. I just realize they need some big exciting offers to really get a lot of people to give the park a chance. There is a lot to fix within the existing park, that's for sure.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  6. #81

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    Re: Have you guys been to any park that wasnt owned by Disney?

    Oh yea, I've bunch of them. Six Flags Great Adventure, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, Busch Gardens Tampa, Hersheypark, Kennywood, Universal Studios Florida, ect.

    But, the main reason most of us criticize DCA is because...we know Disney can do better. Take this for example, Tokyo DisneySea opened the same year DCA did, right? TDS is probably the 2nd greatest Disney park ever built, and what did DLR get? A last minute, cheap effort (only $400 million for DCA alone) of a park to compensate for the loss of WestCOT.

    That is why I pray to God every night that both:

    A. The DCA overhaul to finally get the park to it's total potential as a full day experience.

    B. That eventually some time in the future (maybe 2015), we could see a 3rd gate go to DLR that would have the "feeling" of either TDS or Epcot. DisneyGEO* maybe?


    *BTW, DisneyGEO is just an idea of mine of having a 3rd gate themed to Earth.

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