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  1. #1

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    Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    I was thinking about this the other day. I remember when Indy was being refurbed a while back. The painters were repainting a portion of the attraction, and came to a dark spot. Even under normal conditions this area is not visible by guests. They inquired with WDI if they should even bother painting that area. WDI came out, and said it should be done. The painters protested commenting on how no one would see it and WDI responded "I don't care if no one can see it, paint it anyways" Not just a slap of the brush... I'm talking detailed painting... So the painters set to work and it was done. Sadly, the painters were right... all there work was for nothing and it can not be seen either when the ride is running, or when the lights or on and you are walking the track.

    I also remember on Jungle, when WDI's painters came out and painted all the rock formations in the Elephant Pool. It looked BEAUTIFUL... but no one told the contractor and they painted over it, only to apply their own "rock" paint mixture...

    So I ask, in both cases, is this pride in workmanship, ensuring that an area looks beautiful no matter what... or is this simply corporate waste since no one would be able to see it, and the funds could have gone to a better use.

    And for the record, my anger over the wasteful practices of the Jungle Refurb is specifically what changed my mind about wanting to be in WDI.
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  2. #2

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    I think there's a lot to be said for having enough respect for the work to show dedication to the areas that won't even be seen...but I don't blame WDI for not doing so, as long as the areas that are seen and could be seen are given that amazingly high level of detail. Disney can hardly be expected to waste money on things that will have zero impact on guest experience, but their trademark historically has been and should always be a commitment to "wasting" money on the little details that add up to something of truly fantastic quality.


  3. #3

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Well, painting is not just about aesthetics. Paint is a protective coating and regular paintng ensures that the materials beneath will be protected. I'm sure that WDI directed the painters to paint for this reason.

    In regard to the other issues at JC, well construction is a wastefull process and it's easy to get wires crossed and make a mistake like painting something over that didn't need it. It is frustrating, but in my experience this type of thing happens to some extent on virtually every construction project.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    I'm with Data on this one. If there is absolutely no chance of a place being seen by regular guests doing normal regular guest things, then I'm ok with them not detail painting it.

    But if it is onstage somewhere and there is a chance it might be seen, it should be covered, painted, themed, etc. Even if you don't notice it consciously your brain picks up on it and it helps solidify the theme.

    Things should always be themed a little bit further than anyone could see. Not just up to a corner, but a few feet beyond it just to be safe.

    For instance, from the pet cemetery at HM, everything that you can see from there should be themed, painted, etc, because it is a place that regular guests do have access to.

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  5. #5

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    as a stagecraft tech, set construction and painting are a big thing (obviously). Im Kinda split with this one. When we construct a set, i try to construct it as if I was the one sitting and watching the show...and I LOVE detail. Same goes for when I paint the set. I go ahead and modulate colors on objects to give them more depth under the theater lighting and I even go as far as to paint the underside of tables.

    So Im all for painting EVERYTHING. But of course back stage never gets any attention...no one sees it.

    So i guess if its something that no one would EVER see as a normal guest, than its ok to leave it unpainted. Im curious now as to which part is painted and not ever seen. I guess now that we know about it...it should be painted


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  6. #6

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Like I said, its probably mostly a cover my rear end decision. In the end yeah, you could call that corporate waste, but it's borderline to me. If they didn't paint and something rotted out and then someone asked, why wasn't that painted, and it could come back on the imagineer who gave permission not to paint it. The imagineer probably had an architecture background and would view paint as a protective coating an understand that there is a pontential, if only small, liability to not painting all surfaces. Now, if they were demanding a level of detail beyond what was required in terms of construction specifications, then yes, it was definitely wasteful.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  7. #7

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Let me put my thoughts this way. Every year I help build a haunted house and I do not skip out on the details. People will ask me what the point is since no one will see it or pay attention. I always reply that I know I did it and that is good enough for me. Even if an area is not seen by guests, they are still immersed in the world that the ride is giving. You would not find a blank plain wall in a real temple.

  8. #8

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stich626 View Post
    Let me put my thoughts this way. Every year I help build a haunted house and I do not skip out on the details. People will ask me what the point is since no one will see it or pay attention. I always reply that I know I did it and that is good enough for me. Even if an area is not seen by guests, they are still immersed in the world that the ride is giving. You would not find a blank plain wall in a real temple.
    But I think you're talking about two different issues here. One is giving an insane amount of attention to details that most people won't notice, but are nonetheless visible. The other is giving an insane amount of attention to areas that are guaranteed to not be seen by the guests. If you ask me, the former is crucial, but the latter is pointless--unless you simply enjoy the process and want to keep going, which is very cool, just not financially feasible for a big company.

    I'm not at all trying to say that the little details should be ignored. They should be carefully thought-out and lovingly crafted. But I see no financial sense in, for instance, making the entire second Pirates show building look like more of NOS on the outside; the only way you'll see it is by being a CM, by getting evac'ed, or (briefly) by riding the monorail. The first two don't affect the ordinary guest experience at all. The third does...but that one's debatable, since most guests don't even look in that direction and the only ones who even know that they're seeing ride facilities are the ones who, like me, actually want to see backstage.


  9. #9

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    But I think you're talking about two different issues here. One is giving an insane amount of attention to details that most people won't notice, but are nonetheless visible. The other is giving an insane amount of attention to areas that are guaranteed to not be seen by the guests. If you ask me, the former is crucial, but the latter is pointless--unless you simply enjoy the process and want to keep going, which is very cool, just not financially feasible for a big company.

    I'm not at all trying to say that the little details should be ignored. They should be carefully thought-out and lovingly crafted. But I see no financial sense in, for instance, making the entire second Pirates show building look like more of NOS on the outside; the only way you'll see it is by being a CM, by getting evac'ed, or (briefly) by riding the monorail. The first two don't affect the ordinary guest experience at all. The third does...but that one's debatable, since most guests don't even look in that direction and the only ones who even know that they're seeing ride facilities are the ones who, like me, actually want to see backstage.
    I see what you are saying. I didn't put the financial aspect in to it.

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stich626 View Post
    I see what you are saying. I didn't put the financial aspect in to it.
    Mmm. I mean, everything you're saying makes perfect sense in the context you're talking about--don't get me wrong. I'm known to do that sort of thing in my personal projects, too...putting all those details in that even I may never really notice or appreciate again, but continuing to do so anyway, just out of love for the craft. But it's just that truly pesky financial side of things that makes in impractical in a theme park run by a big company. Especially because there's just so much backstage stuff.


  11. #11

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    About the painting issue: maybe the money was already allocated whether is was painted or not, or the painters were already being paid for the additional hours it took them to paint, so there was no loss of money.

  12. #12

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Split the difference: Even the Backstage areas need to get painted to protect the walls and give the proper image.

    But if it's an unseen and unseeable corner they shouldn't go to insane levels of detail on it. Just extend the basic "Block Wall" pattern back into the corner and leave off all the "stone" spatters and drop shadows, so it looks 'right' if someone wanders back there.

    And the repeat job on that Jungle rock does sound like a waste of time and paint to repeat in the same rehab. Unless the first job was seriously flawed.

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  13. #13

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    When forced to choose, I usually err on the side of excess. Exceeding expectations (even if it appears unreasonable) is preferrable to lowering them, IMO. I would rather have detail where I cannot see, than not see it where I can.

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Mmm. I mean, everything you're saying makes perfect sense in the context you're talking about--don't get me wrong. I'm known to do that sort of thing in my personal projects, too...putting all those details in that even I may never really notice or appreciate again, but continuing to do so anyway, just out of love for the craft. But it's just that truly pesky financial side of things that makes in impractical in a theme park run by a big company. Especially because there's just so much backstage stuff.
    Hence the giant green fencing around the entire side/front

  15. #15

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    Re: Pride in Workmanship or Corporate Waste?

    The area in question is so obscure that even the standard work lights that go on when the track is down didn't uncover it. Painting had to haul out their lights just to light it up and see it. I felt bad for them. It is one thing to slap on a coat of paint and call it a day. Most backstage areas are one standard color... not a big deal... It's quite another to paint an intricate mural and spend countless hours on something no one will see. Personally I saw it as a waste. The money spent on that could have been directed elsewhere. Meanwhile the expected budget cut rolled through, but we had a nicely painted obscure spot no one can see without a really bright flashlight!
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