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  1. #31

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    The purpose of this overhaul is indeed to 'discourage' the using of the rep system as a like or dislike tool. Disagreeing with someone's take on something or giving positive points wantonly for one-word responses or because something was found 'funny' that didn't contribute to a thread weakens the system and artificially demerits or promotes users, and the goal is to cut down on that via having the specific reasons which are easily appraised by site staff.
    This just makes wrongful use easier because people who are not within each other's presence are much more comfortable with lying. Instead of having to state some reason, the option is just there to be chosen. The lying is only going to be broken if every reputation and associated post is screen for compliance with the stated reasoning and then members who do act otherwise are contacted. That seems like more work to make it work than reviewing written comments.

    While it might be easy to figure out who gave a negative reputation, I think the ability to see written negative comments would have been helpful. It would allow members to see why it is happening, especially if it is happening a lot to somebody like a new member.

    Ignorance also seemed to be an issue. I noticed a few posts of people asking why they were being hit with the Unhelpful marking. Maybe just a sentence or two about how it is possible to have reputation reviewed and discussed on the top of the page where the given points are listed along with link to send a message.

  2. #32

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    This just makes wrongful use easier because people who are not within each other's presence are much more comfortable with lying. Instead of having to state some reason, the option is just there to be chosen. The lying is only going to be broken if every reputation and associated post is screen for compliance with the stated reasoning and then members who do act otherwise are contacted. That seems like more work to make it work than reviewing written comments.

    While it might be easy to figure out who gave a negative reputation, I think the ability to see written negative comments would have been helpful. It would allow members to see why it is happening, especially if it is happening a lot to somebody like a new member.

    Ignorance also seemed to be an issue. I noticed a few posts of people asking why they were being hit with the Unhelpful marking. Maybe just a sentence or two about how it is possible to have reputation reviewed and discussed on the top of the page where the given points are listed along with link to send a message.
    Every reputation point given, positive and negative, is reviewed personally by a moderator under the new system and removed/written to involved members if it is not valid or deserved. There is that level of oversight and actually fairly easy to see if the post doesn't match up to the stated reason.

    As for allowing custom comments to accompany negative rep written by the member, those were given before but not visible to receiving member. In a fairly high amount of instances, the reason stated was not a reason to give neg rep or not properly used: therefore, the list of standardized reasons was agreed upon.

    And that is a valid point of knowledge of how to get rep reviewed if not deserved: we are working on making that aspect more public currently still.

  3. #33

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Every reputation point given, positive and negative, is reviewed personally by a moderator under the new system and removed/written to involved members if it is not valid or deserved. There is that level of oversight and actually fairly easy to see if the post doesn't match up to the stated reason.
    Then there should be no reason comments should be hidden anymore.

    But I find it amusing to think that new comments will somehow make it so all rep can now be reviewed... when it wasn't possible to do before? This new change will make manpower and scale magically appear? While making the individual determination of validity will ultimately be that much harder to decipher?

    If it's possible to scan every rep given (as stated will be happening now...) then one should have been able to do the same before. If bad rep was a problem before - it should have been addressed with the users who couldn't understand the system. Warn, and then remove their ability to leave rep for a period of time. It's trivial to achieve that in vbulletin.

    The same abusing members can continue to do so in the 'new' system if you continue to fail to address users who misuse the system.

    The problems with the old system appear to be:
    1 - lack of awareness of what the system was to be used for (could have been addressed in the templates when the popup was shown or with perm announcements)
    2 - lack of screening rep by staff
    3 - an inability to break the cycle of misuse

    This new system is trying to tie people's hands to make them behave instead of educating them how to behave and addressing the ones that don't.

    You can't force people to only use certain words to express themselves. This is proven time and time again through history.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


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  4. #34

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    Re: Reputation comments

    With these changes, I won't give negative rep because doing so anonymously is pure cowardice.
    Everyone has a right to face their accuser.

  5. #35

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
    Everyone has a right to face their accuser.
    Those who insist their "rights" are being violated seem to not understand that MiceChat is not the U.S.A. and is not governed by a Constitution. It is a private site with rules of conduct established by the site owners -- rules which one agrees to when joining the site as a member.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 08-11-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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  6. #36

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Yes, you've made it clear you disagree and of course, "I" understand why.
    BTW, It's not so much a matter of "rights", it's a matter of character - IMO.
    And there's nothing in the rules that say I have to give negative rep.
    Last edited by ScottG; 08-11-2012 at 05:44 PM.

  7. #37

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    Re: Reputation comments

    I have always been a bit squeamish about giving negative rep, so I usually report a post when I see something that I feel needs immediate attention. I feel by doing that, I am helping to keep MiceChat a happy place to post.
    My Next WDW Vacation is Aug 18, 2014 - Aug 23, 2014
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  8. #38

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    Re: Reputation comments

    That does sound like a nicer way of doing things Barbaraann

  9. #39

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Now I'm thinking, that there should only be a "report" button.

    Since I've been here, in my humble opinion, the chat here is getting too PC.
    I remember when it was more jovial and less serious, unless it was about DCA or Eisner. The "fun" of coming here was to feel happy and know that others here reveled in DL as much as you did. But, you could speak your mind without getting suspended or banned unless you were just trolling. Now, it seems like the majority want to come here for a b*tch session and complain about DL. Then they gang up on you if you have a different opinion. At least that's what it feels like to me. Maybe I'm getting too old or maybe the young'uns aren't respecting DL as much as I would like. Anywho, that's my story. Thanks for listening.


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  10. #40

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Druggas View Post
    Now I'm thinking, that there should only be a "report" button.

    Since I've been here, in my humble opinion, the chat here is getting too PC.
    I remember when it was more jovial and less serious, unless it was about DCA or Eisner. The "fun" of coming here was to feel happy and know that others here reveled in DL as much as you did. But, you could speak your mind without getting suspended or banned unless you were just trolling. Now, it seems like the majority want to come here for a b*tch session and complain about DL. Then they gang up on you if you have a different opinion. At least that's what it feels like to me. Maybe I'm getting too old or maybe the young'uns aren't respecting DL as much as I would like. Anywho, that's my story. Thanks for listening.
    MiceChat in a nutshell. How I'd love to turn back the clock.

    It's been a long and winding road from there to here, and quite frankly it's not as much fun as it should be.
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  11. #41

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    Re: Reputation comments

    We find ourselves in a complex world.

    From the time when MiceChat was first created, the tone of the internet has changed. Things like the reputation system are essential tools for us to be able to prevent the harsh, often hateful or violent tone that has developed on other discussion sites or any public sites such as Youtube. We have tried many different incarnations of the reputation system, including not having one at all and the current set up works far better than any other set up.

    As MiceChat and the internet in general has extended its reach, anyone is now not only welcome, but easily able to find our site and take part in our discussions. Before, only those people much more interested Disneyland would have likely found the site and that might explain the shift that many long time members have noticed.

    If anyone has any ideas how we could help promote friendly, fun discussion about all things Disneyland, we are always accepting ideas. We really do want to have the best Disney website on the internet. However, we must also respect the views of anyone who signs in and we will not censor anybody's viewpoints as long as they adhere to our terms of use. It is hard to balance positive and welcoming to anyone, and I hope that with everyone's help, we can get continue to get better and better.



    To directly address the thread, the reputation comment list was essential. While everyone here was likely using the comments right, as a moderator, I was able to see all of the comments people were leaving and the large majority of comments were either gibberish, lies, or just things like "I liked what you have to say" or even things like "Your an idiot."

    Now that everyone can see the comments left for them whether positive or negative, it is very easy to see if what was said about your post is valid or not. You can then make use of the "report reputation" button in any cases where you feel that there is abuse. Similarly, we can also see exactly what was posted and the reasoning that someone reported it. It is much easier for us to judge whether the reputation was abusive or not and take action.
    Last edited by Trevor; 08-12-2012 at 12:39 PM.

  12. #42

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    Re: Reputation comments

    MiceChat has about 50,000 members. I find that amazing. It is a revolving door of members however, and presently about a hundred of us are here. I spend a lot of time here, because quite frankly, MiceChat feels like family. You can't force the magic, or twist someone's arm to have a good time. They either do, or they don't. I have always admired one thing, and that is the give and take that is present here. I have learned a lot since my very first day. One thing in particular is the ability to now laugh at myself. MiceChatters are passionate about their themeparks, but foremost I believe they need to learn to accept that everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily mirror their own.

    I have found that I am no-good at disciplining. Reputation is the discipling of it's membership. It's a thankless job because it needs to be done, but in doing so it sometimes steps on a person's toes or their innermost feelings.

    Because of the comings and goings of so many members, the system is constantly under stress. It reminds me of a schoolteacher, who starts out the first day of school with a certain group of mixed personalities. By the time the teacher has it all figured out, and the students are working together nicely, the year ends and the teacher has to start the entire process over.

    Easy solution? No way. Constantly trying? Yes, that's a given.
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  13. #43

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    Re: Reputation comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Druggas View Post
    Now, it seems like the majority want to come here for a b*tch session and complain about DL. Then they gang up on you if you have a different opinion.
    In fact, a casual scan of any week's worth of posts and threads will show just the opposite: the vast majority are positive or neutral (asking for or submitting information), and the vast majority of any "ganging up on" that is done is against those who post negative comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Druggas View Post
    Since I've been here, in my humble opinion, the chat here is getting too PC.
    I disagree. A reading of the threads in the Litter Box (even the few pages remaining from the hundreds of threads that have been moved there), will show the kind of nastiness that uses "PC" and "free speech rights" as justification.


    Quote Originally Posted by Druggas View Post
    The "fun" of coming here was to feel happy and know that others here reveled in DL as much as you did.
    To me, the fun was in the interesting, thoughtful, intelligent and well written posts that were routinely submitted by many members who are no longer active -- and who are missed.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  14. #44

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    Re: Reputation comments

    I used to love leaving rep for both reasons, there were people that were good for the site and people that weren't. Frankly now I don't care, it's sterile and PC. It feels like a polarized fansite, not a group of friends. I come here for information, not to check up with people I really care about. Sure there's still a lot of people I enjoy discussing Disneyland and other topics about, but it's not a site I crave going to.

    So, I'll still leave an occasional rep for those that are helpful and those that do great trip reports. I'll neg rep those that are trolling and trying to be incidiary. I try to be helpful and witty and find new people that are the same. But in the end, I don't care a whole lot which is sad to me. Such is life, things change for the good and bad.

  15. #45

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    Re: Reputation comments

    I liked the old rep system, where I could leave a comment. I could also quickly leave a little comment for someone, something that *really* didn't need to be clogging up the thread.

    Now that I have to go send them an actual message, I am significantly less likely to do so. I haven't used the new rep system at all other than the one time to try it and see what I thought. Hate it. Like you say, it's sterile.

    So now my choice is to not give the feedback that I would like to give privately or to clog up the thread. I don't like either choice.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

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