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  1. #1

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    "Pirate Princess"

    I know the "princess" concept is popular with many Disney fans, but the concept of "pirate princess" really bothers me. I didn't think much about the ever-expanding panoply of Disney "princesses" until Skinny Dog displayed his pirate princess stuff (and this is no slur on him, this is Disney's concept, not his). Why not pirate queen? Or even just female pirates? There were real female pirates - POTC even has Anne Bonny and Mary Read painted on its wall. I like the idea of a woman who can hold her own with men. Princesses, to me, are delicate, helpless, decorative creatures, and would find pirates and pirate life too dirty, rough, and degrading. But I guess pirate princess fits Disneyís existing marketing strategies.

    POTC the movie had a female pirate, and a main female character who was fascinated by pirates. If they have to "update" the ride, why can't they include one of these characters? The only females in the ride now are victims.

    What message does the Disney "princess" concept send to our daughters? That their life won't be complete until they get the right man. That "good" women are helpless and have minimal ability to control their destiny. Queens - women who have power and make their own decisions - are evil, don't love anyone, donít have any friends, don't have visible relationships with men, and are always defeated in the end.

    Disclaimer: I know these are generalizations, and since I havenít seen all Disneyís movies, there may be female characters that Iím not taking into consideration.

  2. #2

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    First of all, I think Disney chooses princess over queen because the stereotype is that the queen is the mom and the princess is the daughter. A girl is more likely to be interested in a teen-aged heroine than a middle-aged one. IMO its more about age than strength.

    Disney has been moving away from the traditional, Snow White type princess for some time now. The best examples that pop into my mind are Mulan and Jasmine. They were all about independence, doing your own thing. Sure there was love involved in the stories, but they didn't make falling in love a primary goal.

    Even Ariel and Belle are more modern princesses than Snow White. In fact the only time I think a Disney princess really needed a man to be complete was in Snow White and Cinderella.

    Another thing to take into account is that most Disney movies are based on existing fairy tales. Fairy tales that were probably invented back in the middle ages when women really did have no power, and did indeed need a man to survive. The fact that Disney has turned those type of stories into what we know today is admirable!

    I think the message most Disney princesses send to my daughter is that you can be strong, just, humane, caring, loving, smart, funny, feminine and sucessful... all at the same time. And that's a message I can get behind.

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  3. #3

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    I like it- and on the Rogue board I use it as my nickname.

    The last passive Disney princess was Sleeping Beauty. More recently we have heroines like Megara, Esmerelda- women who find love but manage, very well, on their own.
    Last edited by Nephythys; 03-09-2006 at 06:41 PM.

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    I've given the Pirate Princess some thought recently. Mostly because I'd like to have a good shirt besides my Del Sol shirt. I remember, when we first found out about it, that a lot of people were like, "I'd buy it if it were Pirate Wench or something."

    So I had thought of a lot of, I thought, cute things to put on shirts they could market and probably sell a killing of.

    For one, I'd like to see one for redheads specifically that says, " THE Redhead". Simple and we'd all know what it means.

    One for me, heh, "Showing my larboard side"

    "Willing to share, I be!"

    Unfortunately, them's the only ones I can think of that I came up with off the top of my head. Weak, I know. I'll try to remember where I was going with it...

    In the meantime, how about anyone else? Maybe the powers that be are watching. Ooooh.
    "But every night, when it gets dark
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  5. #5

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    i'm personally not a fan of it. i don't want anyone to think i'm targeting them, so i won't list my generalizations of the "pirate princess" title. not my style, though.

    i've been oversaturated by all of the general princess stuff. i haven't had to deal with it on a personal level (i have a son, no daughters as of yet), but i'm not big on the "princess" merch. either. i like the costumes for a specific princess & think it's cute when the little girls dress up as snow white or cinderella, for example. i guess i just don't like the word "princess" emblazoned on their shirts. etc. just a personal preference, i guess.
    <o>

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    How funny how different we all see this.

    I love Princess stuff- not the point that I will buy anything just because it has Princess on it but Rose has shirts that say Princess on them. I have no objections to making her feel like she is royalty. She certainly deserves the best IMO, and a Prince too.

    I like the Pirate Princess because at Faire I hang out with a bunch of people who like playing pirates. I view it outside the Disney experience, so there is no conflict for me.

    What I do hate- is those jeans and such that put words or some glittery picture right on the rear- so your eyes are drawn to some young girls backside. It makes me a little sick that people designed them, and that parents buy them.

  7. #7

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephythys

    ...snip

    What I do hate- is those jeans and such that put words or some glittery picture right on the rear- so your eyes are drawn to some young girls backside. It makes me a little sick that people designed them, and that parents buy them.

    I never thought of the words as drawing eyes to some young girls rear, but that does make sense, and the question is why. I just always thought "what were they thinking" Having an "advertisment" (come and get it) on the rear-end never made any sense to me at all. The sooner this goes out of fashion, the better (IMHO). To me it just looks well...


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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephythys
    What I do hate- is those jeans and such that put words or some glittery picture right on the rear- so your eyes are drawn to some young girls backside. It makes me a little sick that people designed them, and that parents buy them.
    I couldn't believe when I saw them for children. I'm not talking tweens or teens. I'm talking like a five year old! And, especially the people around here, they buy into and buy it.

    Ugh.
    "But every night, when it gets dark
    and the stars come out,
    I'll look up on her behalf.
    I'll look up in the sky and think of you."






  9. #9

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    We were at a pizza place the other night- and our table was near the soda machines. I look up and there is a girl with her back to me, no more than 12, likely less, and on the backside of her jeans is a large glittery butterly, smack in the middle of her nether cheeks.

    I felt embarrassed by being drawn in by that- what ARE her parents thinking?????

  10. #10

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    Sorr, but if I'm gong to be a pirate, I'm going to be a wench. Pirate Princess is an oxymoran.

  11. #11

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    One of the earlier arguments about the fairy tales being written back when women were weak and love-sick creatures and the new crop of strong women in disney movies (i.e. Esmeralda, Megara, on and on) reminded me of an article I read in the Times once about how feminism has turned us all into sluts; women who use sexuality to portray power, and who see promiscuity as the essence of "freedom." And that, like women in the 50s who bowed to their men by keeping house and looking prim in heels and pearls 24/7, these new women are bowing to the sexual desires of men today who, instead of a domestic goddess, want a fiery sexual being incapable of going 5 minutes without wanting sex. We're "liberated" but we're just as subservient to men as always, only the men's tastes have changed. It's a very exteme opinion of course, but you certainly see it reflected in Disney's society. Esmeralda, Megara... let's face it, those girls had big boobies and butts and flaunted them... danced provocatively in front of a Catholic priest... and now Pirate Princesses, who I'm sure are provocative as all get out... makes me wonder. Any thoughts?

  12. #12

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    Quote Originally Posted by NatBrat
    ... and now Pirate Princesses, who I'm sure are provocative as all get out... makes me wonder. Any thoughts?
    Um, she's actually represented as a skeleton. Hardly provacative.

    ... danced provocatively in front of a Catholic priest...
    Danced in front of a Catholic Priest- you mean Frollo, the sociopathic murdering thug masquerading in holy robes? The man who killed Quasi's mother? Committed torture and mass murder? Yeah- like I would condemn Esmerelda for that?

  13. #13

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    Yeah.. I don't agree with this Pirate Princess stuff, either!

    Belle, BTW, wasn't a princess until she married the Prince. Mulan wasn't and isn't a princess. And Jadmine, well... But I won't even start on how Disney has bastardized the whole Princess thing.

    I own one Princess shirt - and I love it because it's dark blue and the letters and crown are grey/black in this cool font. Though I do know the Princess stuff is geared at little girls. There's jusdt SO much and... yeah. See above!

    But basing stuff on female pirates would be cool!
    Good morning, son
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    I knew you'd feel the same things...





  14. #14

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    I would just like to ask what type of fairy tales you read to think that princess is a negative thing. Princesses have very good qualities like kindness, gentleness, intelligence and of course strength. I think all girls are princesses and I'd consider myself a pirate princess too. I don't think it is a bad thing to be a pirate princess. If anything I think there are negative connotations with the word pirate.

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    Re: "Pirate Princess"

    I just got an image of Anne Bonney and Mary Read sitting in clean, lacey dresses sipping tea. Innocent enough. And then: ARGH!

    I crack myself up.
    "But every night, when it gets dark
    and the stars come out,
    I'll look up on her behalf.
    I'll look up in the sky and think of you."






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