HKDL Expansion concept art！！！

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by a_shy_kid

toystory land has potential if done right, as out of place it kind of seems.
i think it would of been very easy for imagineers to just decide to place astro blasters + midway mania attractions here but i'm somewhat happy they're actually deciding to come up with something original.

I'd rather have clones of good rides than original crap!

[a_shy_kid]

Originally Posted by Coheteboy

I'd rather have clones of good rides than original crap!

touche. haha. well hopefully they turn out not crappy then.

[Tyler1994]

I think they are going to add more attractions and maybe another land south of the Grizzly land. There is also more room in Fantasyland for additions.

[k_peek_2000]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I am used to the area of the park that surrounds the main river to be lively, full of color and entertainment and such. But what is planned for HKDL looks lifeless and not the least bit warm, plus it's 3 areas not lands that in no way have any relevence to each other. I am not really impressed with what they have planned. However I am sure the attractions will be great. EXCEPT for Toy Story Playland. Which is a clone of Paris's which is uninspiring in the first place. Which means they are still being cheap which scares me.

[tloolgb]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

An original rollercoaster with new story/theme... in an original land
An original, new version of a HM-style ride... in an original land

And the return of the Adventurers Club.

Given the types of complaints people usually have about character tie-ins, cloning, lack of park-original ideas, etc.. this sounds like basically the anti-version of everyone's complaints. I think it all sounds great.

And when people say XYZ ride doesn't belong in the park.. I'll all point you to is Dumbo, Carousal, and the tea cups.

The ride system isn't what makes or breaks a Disney attraction, its what they do as a package that makes it work or not.

No kidding. Bravo for this post. I mean...I am shocked at how negative people are being. I mean this is big news!

HKDL is getting two new, state of the art, unique e-tickets. The kind of rides that come 5-6 years after a park opens that define a park for years to come and really make a park earn their place at the top in the world of theme parks(see Matterhorn, Everest, ToT, Space Mountain De La Terre a La Lune).

I mean, Grizzly River Run/BTM/Everest/Powderkeg Coaster hybrid and a Tokyo Pooh/HM/Tokyo ToT hybrid? If you guys don't want them...fine. I'll take them here in Florida. We're after all getting...nothing.

Now I will agree that the placement of the lands is odd...they don't seem to allow for good thematic transitions. Adventureland to the old West to the Jungle to the American Suburbs isn't what I would call smooth...but oh well. The other option is nothing at all. I guess it is the lesser of two evils...but they can try to make something work.

And they are tiny lands...but other than Mystic Point, all the lands do have expansion space. Now Toy Story Land is an odd choice for a MK style park...and it is not the right direction for an MK style park...but the other two rides make up for it. Plus TSMM could be a future ride (but then of course the complaining starts about "not more clones!").

I mean...HKDL is going from clone city to having two of the most unique rides of any MK-style park. Sounds like a winner to me.

My only serious gripe is that instead of taking what could be a great, intimate detailed (see...elegant and intellegent) landscapped space, like in DL's Critter Country, they put a water playground in the middle of Grizzly Trail instead of trees and landscaping. It does kind of make (with the paly area in Tomorrowland and Toy Story Land) HKDL seem like the half-there MK...but still...

I like these, and I was on a fanboy high all day. These are great sounding ideas...and Mystic Point is enough to shoot HKDL up on my list to visit (higher than DLP me thinks).

The saddest part about this though...that currently...every Disney resort in the world is undergoing growth (major - HKDL and DL, to basic TDL, DLP) except for Florida.

So again...complain all you want. But you could only be looking forward to more discounts crowding the parks and reduced fireworks shows like us Floridians instead of great new e-tickets.

[tloolgb]

Just to respond to a few comments on here.

They could even get Mattel to sponsor a Hot Wheels raceway coaster?

Oh because that is so much better? That is Six Flags. Toy Story Land isn't much better...but at least it uses Disney/PIXAR IPs. What makes Hot Wheels say "Walt Disney"?

I forgot to say that I also agree that claiming 30 attraction is dumb.

I'll agree with this...30? Part of me wonders who this is coming from...I could see the Chinese adding this to drum up support for losing ownership stake in the park. But 30...and more than 100 attractions in the park? This is far beyond PR spin...this sounds very Chinese Propaganda to me.

... but the drop looks too short.

Haha. Yes. Because concept art drawn from a bird's eye view with improper perspective tells us so much about the technical side of a roller coaster. WE MUST HATE IT!

And about what I would expect for $ 500 million.

Exactly. People seem to forget money is only printed at will here by the American Government…for the rest of the world it has to be spent in reason. And while Disney’s prices are higher than the usual firm’s, Disney also has a better track record. So for $500 million we could get more...with no themeing (WDS in Paris) or less with good themeing (think Everest).

Build only 2 new lands, with 2 new rides each. Nothing more!

Major rides would crush all competition and it would leave some space for that cheap crap they could add in 5-10 years just for the sake of expanding. Better to have 2 good things than 2 ok and 1 that SUCKS.

You don't really understand the concept of theme park management do you? You realize you cannot build only e-tickets right? You have to spread out your return on investment. Only e-tickets = fewer rides and a broke company. And when you only have e-tickets…when they have lines…you have Universal Studios…a park with nothing to do but wait in line.

It is better to add the "sucky" things because they add capacity and keep lines at other rides moving. Toy Story Land isn’t my 1st choice for B & C ticket attractions…but it is better than not having them at all. Especially once people flock to your park for your big new e-tickets.

But I´d be the first to tear all that old crap down if I could.

Well…see my post up above. My opinion stands. It is almost as though there is a 13 year old fanboy playing RCT channeling you.

I still cannot believe the negativity. I mean...wow. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by tloolgb

Oh because that is so much better? That is Six Flags. Toy Story Land isn't much better...but at least it uses Disney/PIXAR IPs. What makes Hot Wheels say "Walt Disney"?

What makes ANY thing say "Walt Disney"? Great attractions, great theme, and above all else, great quality. If you're thinking of just slapping hot wheels on something and calling it a day, that certainly wasn't what I had in mind.

If you're in a Toy Story land, should it be occupied by the Pixar characters alone? Maybe, maybe not. Or it should be as varied as Andy's room... but in a tasteful way of course? Maybe. That's all I'm suggesting. What they shouldn't be doing is recreating the mentality of Flik's Fun Fair using Toy Story.

[JCSkipr79]

OK. lets take this for what it is. The Grizzly thing, seems basically Bear/Critter Country/FrontierL/Grizzly Recreation. So at least THATS something but again. ONE Land w/ ONE attraction. And WHAT IS Mystic Point?? It seems like they ripped off The Lost Continent from IOA and made an excuse to put a new HM and a Adv Club dining room. This HM at least SOUNDS intersting, but a trackless version w/ no doombuggies would be a disaster. The intimacy would be lost. ToyStory Land is a JOKE. It's DCA 1.0 w/ a Pixar overlay and should absouluty NOT be in a MK Park.

[nlso]

i think the grizzly trail and mystic point look cool and they seem to be the unique renewed frontierland to HKDL.
but the toystory playland is really crappy. i would rather see a modified toontown with new pixar ride instead of having thing like this. the U-shaped track coaster totally damage the well-themed fantasyland.

[Bryce05]

They can do so much better than Toy Story Land... I don't understand why they don't.
It's not like this is a company strapped for cash!

I don't understand the point of Mystic Point at all; why not just go with the voodoo Adventureland idea instead of making a random mini-land.

The layout is awful... Reminds me of IoA, having to walk your *** off around a body of water.

Average.

[Tyler1994]

I don't think you would be able to see Adventureland from the new lands.

[lwm99]

Originally Posted by tloolgb

The saddest part about this though...that currently...every Disney resort in the world is undergoing growth (major - HKDL and DL, to basic TDL, DLP) except for Florida.

So again...complain all you want. But you could only be looking forward to more discounts crowding the parks and reduced fireworks shows like us Floridians instead of great new e-tickets.

Consider many of us have to fly hours to go to our nearest DL on the planet, which is the smallest one with fewer rides than other DLs, you should count yourself lucky to be near a place where there are more theme parks than any place else.

We do not expect HKDL to be the best, but at least it has one third of what TDR is offering will be good. But looking at the expansion plan, really cannot make it.

[Kuhio]

I'm actually pretty excited by the descriptions and preliminary images of the new lands. Of course, if you give a starving man a couple of stale bread crumbs, he'll probably think they're delicious, so maybe my opinion should be taken in that context...

There's no way there are going to be 30 legitimate, new attractions among these three lands, unless "large gold nugget" and "stagecoach" photo ops count as attractions. I wish they would stop doing this kind of thing, as it really hurts their credibility with the public.

The images are clearly works in progress. The Grizzly Trail art doesn't even show the path leading out to Mystic Point, which the schematic clearly depicts. I'm assuming that the finished products will vary significantly -- for the better, one hopes. Based on how polished the rest of the park is, however, I'm fairly confident that the end product will be more impressive that what we're seeing now in the preliminary concept art.

I'm not at all bothered by the fact that the lands are small. A land doesn't have to be large to make a powerful impact; all it needs is elaborate theming, one excellent E-ticket attraction, and one or more smaller attractions or restaurants. Critter Country in TDL is basically just Splash Mountain and Grandma Sara's Kitchen (the Beaver Brothers Canoes doesn't really register on my radar of must-do attractions). Critter Country in DL isn't much larger; it just has more Pooh. In fact, I'd rather create a new land for an attraction that doesn't completely fit thematically into an existing land, rather than shoehorn it in. I've always thought, for example, that Splash Mountain in the MK is a terrible fit for Frontierland. I would rather they have created a separate Critter Country for it, even if there were no other attractions in it. By the same token, I think the MK's Adventureland has become a mess thematically; I would rather they have created a sub-land for the Aladdin/Flying Carpets area.

As for the names of the lands and attractions, I think they're supposed to be preliminary also. I'm pretty sure they can come up with something better than "Grizzly Trail" and "Mystic Point," but those names aren't that awful, honestly. It's not as though "New Orleans Square" or "Paradise Pier" are on another level, creatively. Most Disney lands, in fact, have names that are fairly pedestrian and not much beyond merely descriptive; it's only over time, and through the lens of experience and nostalgia, that we come to ascribe additional meaning to them. Over time, I'm sure that even "Mystic Point" will come to be meaningful to Disney aficionados and the general public alike. That said, I wouldn't mind if they came up with something a bit better.


I agree that the locations of Grizzly Trail and Mystic Point would make more sense thematically if they were reversed. I suspect they were positioned the way they were for logistical reasons. First, the Big Grizzly Mountain coaster seems to need a lot of area, and the plot where Grizzly Trail is situated seems to be bigger than the plot allocated for Mystic Point; it might just be a matter of size. Second, if HKDL is going to be building the new additions in phases over the next five years, it would make sense if the lands on the outside of the new area were to be added first. I could see Toy Story Land being done by next year (if they work quickly and efficiently); Grizzly Trail by 2012; and Mystic Point by 2014. Mystic Manor sounds like the most technologically difficult attraction to create, and the extra time needed to make sure that it's operating properly right out of the box would be worth the extra wait. In the meantime, guests can still reach Toy Story Land and Grizzly Trail, while the area in between them is being finalized.

As for the fact that the new lands are on the outside of the railroad tracks -- that bothered me initially, but not as much after giving it some more thought. I do agree that Disney should have thought out future expansion a bit better when they built the park, and made the railroad delineate a larger perimeter; with its current placement, there's only room for a tiny bit of future expansion within the tracks, mostly in Fantasyland and a corner of Adventureland. But the growth of the park outside the tracks, organically and over time, can be a good thing. Once enough of the park expands to areas outside the tracks, the railroad will begin to be seen as just another attraction embedded within the park -- and fully a part of it -- and not just something that's on the outside edges of it. It can be seen as the monorail gliding over EPCOT or Tomorrowland in DL -- a vibrant, functional piece of the whole. It'll obviously be a while before that happens, but still...


It's obvious that Grizzly Trail is meant to be HKDL's Frontierland; they explicitly use the words "frontier" and "Wild West" several times in its description. I'm completely OK with that; I don't think analogous lands in each park need to have the same name. "Westernland" is still Frontierland to me, just as "Discoveryland" is Tomorrowland. As for the Big Grizzly Mountain coaster, I really like the fact that so much of the attraction is right in the middle of the land itself -- the tracks even pass under the main walkway into the land. Many of Disney's big E-ticket attractions are tucked away at the borders of guest-accessible areas, viewable only from the periphery of the attraction. Having the runaway mine trains run literally under and next to guest walkways adds greatly to the kinetic excitement of the overall area. I also like the fact that parts of the coaster tracks seem to run very close to the HKDL railroad tracks, which should provide a great opportunity for ride interactivity. (I hope that water splash element to the coaster is a real, Matterhorn-style splashdown, and not a fake, BTM-style water squirt.) Finally, the combination of EE's backwards movement, coupled with a RnR launch -- apparently midway through the ride, and likely themed to some sort of dynamite explosion -- sounds like a pretty inspired use of existing elements to create something greater than the whole of its parts.

I'm most excited about Mystic Manor. I'm particularly happy that it didn't end up just being a slightly more "advanced" version of DL's New Orleans-themed mansion, as was long rumored, but instead is its own unique entity. (One thing that has always irked me is the fact that TDL's HM looks more-or-less like the MK's; I would have preferred that they created a facade that looked more like a castle, in keeping with its Fantasyland location.) I suppose Disney can now save the rumored voodoo version of the HM for Shanghai, although I'd still rather see a unique, Chinese-themed HM there, with spirits and creatures out of Chinese mythology, as I described in a post last year. I also like the adventurer/music box/monkey idea, but I hope they don't make the guy the brother of Harrison Hightower or something -- how many people in one family can succumb to mystic forces unleashed by mischievous creatures? It would be a nice touch to tie the two attractions together thematically somehow, though. I'm also excited about the Adventurers Club restaurant; I hope it includes a stage-presentation aspect that incorporates elements of PI's Adventurers Club's show in a fashion not unlike that of the Boat Builders restaurant/show at TDS. I only hope that the Adventurers Club opening in HKDL doesn't preclude the original in Florida from re-opening; if anything, I would hope that it would inspire a new -- and old -- Adventurers Club to open somewhere in WDW, with all the best elements of the original, plus new and improved aspects, such as a show and food service combination.

As for Toy Story Land, I'm a bit bothered by it, but more by the lack of potential than by the idea alone. The attractions in Mermaid Lagoon in TDS, after all, are mostly of the off-the-shelf variety; I didn't hear anyone complaining that Flounder's Flying Fish Coaster was too "un-Disney." The difference there is immersive theming. I think TSL would really benefit by being enclosed, perhaps with a trompe l'oeil ceiling that gives guests the impression that they are tiny toys walking around the floor of a giant child's bedroom. (Unfortunately, though, I doubt this will happen... I don't think the land will deviate that much from the concept art.) I'm not too bothered by the omission of TSMM; I'm assuming that the omission is due not only to cost constraints, but also in part to avoid stealing the thunder of TDS, which has recently announced its own TSMM to open in the not-too-distant future. There's enough room in TSL for a TSMM, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a version of this attraction open in HKDL within a few years after the full completion of this newly-announced expansion. Considering how well executed the rest of HKDL is, I'm pretty confident that TSL won't be as bad as all that -- even if it won't be as good as it could be. (On a side note, I'm still wondering why we haven't seen a Midway Mania Barker-themed Mr. Potato Head for sale in the U.S. parks, considering that Indiana Jones, Darth Vader, Spider-Man, Transformers, and other versions have been made.)

Those are all my thoughts for now... I'm definitely saving my pennies for a trip to China in 2014, where hopefully I'll get to see not only the fully finished HKDL expansion, but also a new SHDL as well...

[TDLFAN]

Originally Posted by hkdlfan

I wonder what the 30 attractions are...

I think there are about 25 water "fixtures" in the bear coaster area.. but 5 more attraction in the rest of the expansion.

[TDLFAN]

Originally Posted by Kuhio

Mystic Manor sounds like the most technologically difficult attraction to create, and the extra time needed to make sure that it's operating properly right out of the box would be worth the extra wait.

Hmmm... sounds to me like this is the same technology already in use for TDL's Hunny Hunt and TDS' Aquatopia, as opposed to brand new technology never attempted.