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  1. #1

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    Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    This is the first part of a study of Hong Kong Disney Resort, in which I will present conceptual site plans for the built-out Disneyland park, an expanded resort hotel offering, a dining-shopping-entertainment district and a second theme park.

    I had previously drawn a build-out for HKDL, but that plan was not very grounded. In that take, I had added a Frontierland (Grizzly Trail + Thunder Mesa south of it) and then expanded all the other lands so, like most DL-style parks, these areas were fairly large containing numerous attractions (e.g. I replaced Toy Story Land with an Indiana Jones area to form one contiguous Adventureland from TheaterintheWild to Mystic Manor).


    The plan presented here is a little more realistic in that it takes the current expansion plan and continues the pattern to form a necklace of distinct mini-lands, each relatively unique from its neighbor. I decided to do this because with Mystic Point isolated between Toy Story & Grizzly Trail, there’s no point in trying to make it part of a Greater Adventureland.







    MINI LAND 1
    In thinking of a concept that could fit between Small World and Toy Story Land without being too jarring to either, I decided on L. Frank Baum’s World of Oz (lots of solid source material, couple of new films coming soon, including one from Disney). I felt like this mini-land would fit comfortably between Toy Story (bright colors of Munchkin Village) and Fantasyland. I think Oz would appeal to the HKDL market. The approach from Small World plaza would take visitors through the Haunted Forest (animated trees) to the foot of the Witch’s cliff-top castle. This would house a very large, scenic ride with lots of AAs and detailed sets (a type of attraction conspicuous by its absence in HK) depicting the stories and places from the world of Oz. The yellow brick road would lead past the Tin Woodman’s Theater (AA show) and to Munchkin village with retail & dining facilities.




    MINI LAND 2
    For a transition from African-set Adventureland to American West-set Grizzly Gulch, I wanted a land that was geographically set in the Americas and still connected to the notion of Old World Adventure. The obvious choice was a Pirates mini-land (sort of like the one pitched by WDI and then shot down by HKDL management). Like both Mystic Point and Grizzly Gulch, this land would have one big E-ticket, one small A/B-ticket and a dining facility. Since Shanghai is apparently not going with the Splash Mountain version of PotC (SDL seems to be getting an indoor-EMV boat hybrid) I decided to resurrect the flume attraction here.



    As seen in my birdseye above, visitors taking the righthand path would pass the fire beacon and arrive in the Caribbean colonial port, housing a Tortuga-themed entertainment & dining venue. In the town square is a well where it looks like the mayor could get dunked, if pirates ever ransacked the town. Nearing the fortress, one of the colonial buildings would house a pirate-themed shooting gallery. The down dissolves into the fortress, which in turn dissolves into the mountain. This complex houses the all new “splash mountain” version of PotC. I tried to work some motifs into the rockwork like the conch shell and the pirate skull out of which riders would drop, passing through the shipwreck to the lagoon below. On the lagoon shore are a couple of areas where adventurers could fire water muskets & canons at the the people on the flume.

    The final addition to this park is the sometimes-rumored Star Tours II, in the last remaining Tomorrowland pad. TL in HK is a space port - the vast majority of the facilities are dedicated to fantasy space travel in one way or another (everything except Autopia?) from varying source materials - so adding Star Tours is like adding another vegetable to the salad. Also, a simulator attraction would be unique in this park.



    ***


    One thing that struck me about is that even a completely built-out (this plan reasonably uses up all the readily available expansion pads that HK will use over the next 10-20 years) HKDL will still be a relatively small and attraction-lite park (about 30 real attractions in this drawing). This must reflect the market analyses that were done for HK in its planning stages. I believe that the original attendance goal for the park was 5.5-6 million in year one. I think the original attendance goal for Disneyland Paris was around 10million in year one. DLP is much bigger than HKDL - both at opening and at its eventual build-out potential, so the theme park going audience of HK & the region may have been estimated (by Disney in 2002) to be significantly smaller than that of Europe (which is odd considering South Asia's massive population).

    Last edited by RandySavage; 05-02-2012 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    It would be fantastic if HKDL would turn out that way. I don't know a lot about Oz, except for the Wicked musical, but it could be a wonderful addtion to a Disney park.

    In my opinion Disney should get rid of the theatre in the wild. It takes too much space, which could be used for an Advetureland expansion. They should incorporate the theatre into a new bulding that also houses a ride.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    There are still some parcels of land that are empty even in your built out. E.g. the plot to the right and upper right of "Theatre in the Wild"; the plot to the left of Fantasyland train station; a small parcel to the lower left of Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters.

    If they could build 3 rides in those three parcels then the park would have more capacity.

    I do agree strongly with you that Disney's estimates for the capacity of the park is very, very low and very strange given the huge populations here.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagobert View Post
    In my opinion Disney should get rid of the theatre in the wild. It takes too much space, which could be used for an Advetureland expansion. They should incorporate the theatre into a new bulding that also houses a ride.
    I agree that come 25 years, if the park wishes to expand, they're going to have to get creative (like the original Disneyland did).


    There are still some parcels of land that are empty even in your built out. E.g. the plot to the right and upper right of "Theatre in the Wild"; the plot to the left of Fantasyland train station; a small parcel to the lower left of Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters.

    If they could build 3 rides in those three parcels then the park would have more capacity.
    You're right, although I like that landscaped area next to the Fantasyland station (with the unusual tree) as is. It's a nice park-like space. I don't think they could easily fit a dark ride in that space and the park already has a surfeit of flat rides. I'd like to see something more permanent than the disguised trailer they use for the Halloween Hotel (next to Plaza Inn).

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    RandySavage, congratulations! It's a very good idea, and I always hope that I had the skills and technology to visualize my ideas too.

    So with the current expansion done HKDL will be 27.5 hectares big (65 acres) and it will have another 7 ha (17 ac) land for further expansion, meaning the built out size be 34.5 ha (85 ac), which is the same as Anaheim's Disneyland. I don't know the max. annual attendance at built out, but from the gov't, after Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point, the max annual attendance could go up to 11 million.

    The Wizard of Oz is a good theme regarding the transition from iasw to TSL, but I personally think it was not very popular among the local and Chinese visitors. Also they need to still allow space for the firework launchers. So my idea would be to build an big *indoor* area with dark rides and other attractions so that they can remain open up until the fireworks (right now TSL already closes 1.5 hours before the fireworks).

    I also like your arrangement for the lower left except that I would like an extension of Grizzly Gulch with Western River Expeditions (comes with the big drop just like you proposed for PotC). The river (lagoon) could serve as a Fantasmic venue too!

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagobert View Post
    It would be fantastic if HKDL would turn out that way. I don't know a lot about Oz, except for the Wicked musical, but it could be a wonderful addtion to a Disney park.

    In my opinion Disney should get rid of the theatre in the wild. It takes too much space, which could be used for an Advetureland expansion. They should incorporate the theatre into a new bulding that also houses a ride.
    Totally agree on both counts!

    As much as I love Wizard of Oz, it's not really has as big of an impact on Asians. Save maybe for "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," and of course, "Wicked." I, on the other hand, grew up with "Wizard of Oz," even stalking out a VHS copy for the first ten years of my existence. I does not play on reruns here, so that emotional pull, I feel is absent.

    Theater in the Wild does take up too much space - the queue in particular. Not to mention the unused FastPass machines. Too much for what it is.

    ---------- Post added 05-05-2012 at 10:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wali View Post

    The Wizard of Oz is a good theme regarding the transition from iasw to TSL, but I personally think it was not very popular among the local and Chinese visitors. Also they need to still allow space for the firework launchers. So my idea would be to build an big *indoor* area with dark rides and other attractions so that they can remain open up until the fireworks (right now TSL already closes 1.5 hours before the fireworks).

    I also like your arrangement for the lower left except that I would like an extension of Grizzly Gulch with Western River Expeditions (comes with the big drop just like you proposed for PotC). The river (lagoon) could serve as a Fantasmic venue too!
    I'd love that Western River Expedition idea with Fantasmic, and I'm sure if that comes true, it would give HKDL some cred among Disney park enthusiasts.

    Although it makes more sense to invest in pirates. Still scratching my head here why the HK rejected that idea.

    I'm also pretty stoked at your suggestion of a Fantasmic venue. Although I'd rather have something new in the same vein as WoC or Disney Dreams.

    ---------- Post added 05-05-2012 at 10:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RandySavage View Post
    I agree that come 25 years, if the park wishes to expand, they're going to have to get creative (like the original Disneyland did).



    You're right, although I like that landscaped area next to the Fantasyland station (with the unusual tree) as is. It's a nice park-like space. I don't think they could easily fit a dark ride in that space and the park already has a surfeit of flat rides. I'd like to see something more permanent than the disguised trailer they use for the Halloween Hotel (next to Plaza Inn).
    Fantasy Gardens, and the queue to the Golden Mickeys, should definitely go, or at least get re-themed. There must be a better way to have a M&G, especially one that could be integrated with a ride. I know Asians love to take pictures but I'd rather call the Leaky Tikis an attraction over this unimpressive garden.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Quote Originally Posted by SirEdge View Post
    I'm also pretty stoked at your suggestion of a Fantasmic venue. Although I'd rather have something new in the same vein as WoC or Disney Dreams.
    I love Disney Dreams! It is on par with Fantasmic. But it's also similar to the nightly fireworks so it's likely be a replacement, not an addition. HKDL needs a second nighttime entertainment - if it turns out to be say Main Street Electrical Parade, it'll be great too.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirEdge View Post
    Fantasy Gardens, and the queue to the Golden Mickeys, should definitely go, or at least get re-themed. There must be a better way to have a M&G, especially one that could be integrated with a ride. I know Asians love to take pictures but I'd rather call the Leaky Tikis an attraction over this unimpressive garden.
    I hate the line up at the Fantasy Gardens M&G, it's too mechanical and not spontaneous. That said, I like to walk around the nice garden and topiaries. But as everyone agrees, it's a huge waste of space. They should better use up the garden as well as the green space on the left of the train station for two B or C ticket rides.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Continuing from last time...


    My feeling is that the 2nd Gate in Hong Kong should skew to an older audience - a counterbalance to HKDL. I also think that due to its unique location right on Penny's Bay, it ought to have some connection to the sea. The park I designed shares more than a few similarities with Tokyo’s 2nd Gate (which can't hurt any park), but in the interest of maintaining uniqueness of both Asian 2nd Gates, it is called ‘Discovery Bay.’ The lands & contents started after I read about a rumored park idea by WDI in the 1980s, described by Jim Hill here: Why For

    Then a reader named David contacted me several weeks ago about drawing his version of "Hong Kong DisneySea", and while the park presented here did not end up being an interpretation of his idea, it does utilize one key feature: the central body of water features a giant “infinity pool” effect into Penny’s Bay (requiring the park to be elevated somewhat). I thought that was a great concept, particularly for this locale. The backdrop of the nightly fountain spectacular would have the open harbor (not facing the city skyline, but the forested islands of HK). Here is the park:



    Also, I thought I’d share a glimpse of what one of my landscaped & 'hand-painted' conceptual plans looks like. Here is a sample of Vulcania (and a bit of Mythia) from this park:


    A brief rundown on the park’s lands & attractions:


    EXPLORERS HARBOUR

    The opening land is set in a romanticized late 1800s San Francisco (Barbary Coast, Gold Rush, etc.). The land is urban with the luxury hotel built into the park (also facing Penny's Bay). Early steam-powered street cars would move along the boulevards, and the docks would feature ships of steam & sail (and both). The main attraction here is the famous Hyperion suspended journey to an arctic Shangri-La. Transit Steamers encircle the park, a counter-point the Gate 1’s railroad.

    VULCANIA

    Like TDS, the hub of the park is Captain Nemo’s secret base, although everything about this version is different and a little larger. Unlike TDS, the park centerpiece is not a volcano (would look silly against the real mountains of Lantau), but the Great Lighthouse similar to what was featured in the very first TDS concept painting. The land is set in a caldera with a new baby volcano forming (but makes no attempt to be a full volcano). The Lighthouse would be a new ride system that combines a free-fall spiral drop with a gyroscope ride vehicle. The park's equivalent of Fortress Exploration is a riveted and steel-domed ‘steampunk’ base that houses various interactive chambers and labs of Cpt. Nemo. The land also features the never-built Grand Salon restaurant and a 20,000K simulator.

    MYTHIA

    This land is based on Classical mythology. Entering through the ancient gates, visitors would be looking across the river at The Colossus. There are a couple kid-accessible attractions (boat ride proposed for Beastlie Kingdomme & family coaster). There is a new version of Soarin’ over the ancient world (with SFX), and an indoor boat ride based on Jason & the Argonauts (PotC).

    SUPERHERO ISLAND

    Secret Jungle Bases sometimes come into play in the superhero genre and that’s what this area is. An E+ dark ride based on the hugely successful Avengers, a large-scale X-men stunt show and a big, family Incredibles ride are the three featured attractions.

    DRAGON COAST

    This land is the sword & sorcery area, with the burnt out castle ruins at the center (housing a major coaster and AA dragon). There is an FX show, like a next gen Poseidon, featuring battling wizards. The tavern features traveling fantasy creatures (dwarves, etc.).

    THE LOST EXPEDITION

    This final area is dedicated to Indiana Jones (or IJ-style pulp adventure) – a 1930s archaeological exploration of an ancient Mayan city in Guatemala. The feel comes close to that of Lost River Delta, although the attraction line-up is different, with a rapids ride and Big Thunder-scale coaster through the jungle and in and around a ruined pyramid.


    ***


    Next will be Part III, concluding with a look at the themed dining-shopping-entertainment promenade and new resort hotels.

    Cheers
    Last edited by RandySavage; 05-10-2012 at 08:47 AM.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Randy you have an outrageous talent in developing theme park concepts.

    But I do notice the scarcity of Disney characters in your design. Okay, we don't need them everywhere, but given the sea theme, wouldn't The Little Mermaid and Finding Nemo be suitable in some shape or form? After all it is not like we already have them in the first gate as the original DL does. Both films are very popular and would add to the park's attractiveness to the HK and South East Asian public. Some people do visit Disney parks because they want to meet Disney characters.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Quote Originally Posted by Asa View Post
    Randy you have an outrageous talent in developing theme park concepts.

    But I do notice the scarcity of Disney characters in your design. Okay, we don't need them everywhere, but given the sea theme, wouldn't The Little Mermaid and Finding Nemo be suitable in some shape or form? After all it is not like we already have them in the first gate as the original DL does. Both films are very popular and would add to the park's attractiveness to the HK and South East Asian public. Some people do visit Disney parks because they want to meet Disney characters.
    Hey Asa, thanks for the kind words.

    You're right that there is a scarcity of animated characters in this conceptual plan, (although I included a couple in the Fantasia boat ride and The Incredibles ride). There are couple of reasons for this. First, the park across the promenade (HKDL) is dominated by Disney/Pixar character-based attractions. It is a great place for those who love Disney to see characters. I see the 2nd Gate as an opportunity to broaden the appeal of the resort to those who are not as interested in the animated characters. Disney already owns the Disneyphile market. My thinking is 'Why not try to go for the teenage/adult market that aren't that into Disney.'

    Secondly, I think there are huge opportunities within the parks to create new characters & settings via original attractions that, if executed well enough, can grow to become as popular as the pre-existing character roster (e.g. PotC the ride spawning the films, which spawned Jack Sparrow).

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    IŽd like to see Disney come up with something better than this!

    The PERFECT layout for a DisneySEA in HK. But IŽd like to see Indy in HKDL Adventureland.

    This is your best!
    The world according me: http://www.youtube.com/user/TimmyME

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post

    This is your best!
    Thanks, Timmy... I updated the post with additional landscape plan studies of this park:


    Last edited by RandySavage; 05-11-2012 at 10:16 PM.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Cool! Thanks for your awesome plans, I wish they come true one day.
    I appreciate the superhero land concept, it is vey unique. I like the Incredibes as well as X-men.
    And for the pirate cove, I wish pirates of the caribbean ride won't be missing. It's a great ride.
    Do you think downtown Disney would be included in the land too?

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    After some thoughts, I have to say that although I am amazed by your talent in design and conceptualization, I do feel a problem with a lack of characters. It is just not Disney enough.

    Anyone out there could build this second gate of yours, except the Superhero Island. Paramount, 20th Century Fox, Warner Bros, Chimelong, Ocean Park, OCT China...etc. Indeed if you can find a financier, you can call it Randy's World or Randyland or whatever you fancy, and simply go ahead, as no copyright is involved here.

    Many people visit Disneyland because of the stories and the characters. Look at the new Cars Land, I just saw the full ride video and it looks stunning, ESPECIALLY because it allows me to enter the world of Radiator Springs. They are essentially the same ride, but Cars Land blows Test Track out of the water, simply because of the much more interesting story behind it.
    Last edited by Asa; 06-10-2012 at 06:06 PM.

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    Re: Illustration: Built-out HKDL

    Asa, you're not wrong - people do like Disney characters. But really think about RandySavage's argument here. If you're always falling back on the same characters, pretty soon you'll run out of characters. How do you grow the brand?

    This is a talent the current Company has largely lost - the idea that if you create original content in the parks, that will spawn characters and adventures that people will cherish and may spin off into new arenas. Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, these are both excellent examples of this phenomenon. I firmly believe that when Disney uses and creates original content that is perceived as non-Disney, it BECOMES Disney. Don't you see? Even if they did the same types of themes, nobody could do these parks the way Disney does, and the way they then absorb these properties and places in the mind of the public.

    Think on this: Main Street USA, Tomorrowland, Adventureland, Frontierland - what do all these have in common? They are broad concepts that aren't specifically Disney. Anyone could have done it. But the kinds of attractions Disney makes - the Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, the Peoplemover, Carousel of Progress, Big Thunder, the Mark Twain, and on and on and on... none of these are inherently Disney until AFTER they are built.

    It is the same principle here.
    "And after a long time or a short time, Ivan and the Wolf came at last to the home of the Firebird..."

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