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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyMickey
    What's the Disneyland Paris policy?
    That is the problem. There is no policy.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pussnboots
    I just think you're exaggerating. Sure, during parades people climb onto the grass and people do smoke in queues once in a blue moon... But don't generalise an entire continent as being rude anarchists.
    I don't think I am exaggerating at all. I have no reason to put down an entire continent just because. That is not my style. Plus, you just vindicated my position on this with your post admitting you are no poster child and that such bevior as trampling gardens and such (one of my major petpeeves of any: people not respecting the fact that a fence is there to tell them they can't go pass that point, and euro patrons at DLP are good at not respecting the property). And, define what you mean by "people do smoke in queues once in a blue moon". What is a "blue moon" to you? Because I am assaulted with cigarrete stink in all queues at almost every other minute of the time I spend there, which is a reason why avoid visiting DLP during high season because I return to my hotel SICK with allergies. I have witnessed the same behavior in Italy, Amsterdam, Germany and the UK...so yes: I make no apologies of my generalizing European way of living. I have witnessed it. I gain nothing by posting things like this since there is bound to be someone offended by these comments. But that is what I have learned about Euros in my many travels there.

  3. #18

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    Yes there is some people who get offended I am one of them, no I don't smoke but I have never known it to be too bad in DLRP the smoking situation. I have to say that only once have I seen anyone not respecting property, that was once and I can say I don't think it is a thing that happens a lot.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by PATMAGIC
    Yes there is some people who get offended I am one of them, no I don't smoke but I have never known it to be too bad in DLRP the smoking situation. I have to say that only once have I seen anyone not respecting property, that was once and I can say I don't think it is a thing that happens a lot.
    I would think that living in Europe, you would get used to those problems on a daily basis, to the point of not even seeing them anymore, regardless of whether you are a smoker or not. As for garden trampling at DLP....one of DLP's most problem areas for their gardening dept is the constant attention they have to give to the gardens around the Hub, simply because they are trampled in a daily constant basis. Maybe next time I visit, I will make a point of photographing what I am talking about, including unruly guests. Sorry that it offends you but the fact that you are offended and not willing to see my point of view further compounds the problem I am having with european attitudes in regards to health and safety.

  5. #20

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    Well, then apparently that works for Europeans. But I must be blinded by my being European as I really don't recall standing in a lot of smoke-polluted queues. And I've been there quite a few times. And people do step on things they shouldn't, but well, I guess this sort of thing doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you... But we're all entitled to our pet peeves.

    And I do agree that there should be designated smoking areas. But try to look at it this way, diversity is nice. And what Europe lacks in proper smoking behaviour, it makes up in a general feeling of freedom and the kind of down-to-earth rationality that comes with age. Every continent has its perks.

  6. #21

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    And Europe is perfectly safe. And most European countries have very strict attitudes and laws regarding smoking these days.

    Aaaand I said I was no poster child for European behaviour, but that doesn't mean I trample gardens. And by saying that, you're still generalising. Not everyone in Europe is as bad as you describe, and as you can see you are offending people. Not that you're not allowed to speak your mind, but just mentioning.
    Last edited by pussnboots; 05-22-2005 at 11:44 AM.

  7. #22

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    Yay great someone who agrees with me a lot. Oh yes one last thing I left out I have only noticed people trampelling on central plaza area to see things like Fantillusion, it is such a cramped space on just the footpaths so I don't see what anyones problem would be against being on the grass while watching Fantillusion. Erm also TDLFAN i don't come in contact with a smoker on a daily basis maybe its just a English thing but really I don't think smoking is that high here anymore as it once was maybe it is you who cannot see since you are so used to bad mouthing DLRP as being rubbish in parts, with rubbish I mean how can the rubbish be a problem I have never seen much at all on the floor there. You hate the WDS which I find is stupid since there are afterall many things that are so nice there if you spend long enough to enjoy the place with its atmosphere which is lost on many. Maybe this could be just me but you seem to see that anything in Europe is bad most of the time. We do not have a smoking habbit and neither do we have a habbit with trampling on grass when its not needed. Sorry but I had to speak my mind some time.

  8. #23

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    If I may intercede here, there are a few points I'd like to make on this subject.

    Firstly, as a Brit and an ex-Cast Member at the resort, I agree with TDLFAN in many respects, although the problem is a little more complicated than he seems to give it credit for.

    First of all, when the resort first opened back in '92, the park had exactly the same smoking regulations as it's American and Japanese counterparts. Smoking indoors and in public spaces was prohibited, except at designated smoking points. This system didn't work. In fact, it failed dismally.
    But before we start pointing the finger at exactly why European guests were reluctant to curb their smoking habits, we need to take a look at the broader picture.
    The smoking ban was not the only measure in force. In line with the other magic kingdoms, it was decided that alcohol would not be allowed inside the park, including the restaurants.
    It was also decided that guests would not be allowed to bring their own food into the park, and bags were searched at the entrance. If any food was discovered (including things like chocolate bars and bottled drinks), the guest was either turned away or the food was confiscated.

    I'll tackle the drink issue first - the idea was that Walt had banned alcohol from Disneyland in 1955 because he wanted the place to be as family-friendly as possible. Now that's understandable - it was as much a reaction against the run down, seedy amusement parks of yore as anything else. But American society's attitude to drink also seems to have played a part. After all, the US has some of the toughest drinking laws in the world - alcohol is far less of a social thing over there. As an American once put it to me, "It's still viewed as the devil's drink". Now I'm not saying that Americans are all teetotal puritans, but the general attitude is far less relaxed than it is in Europe.
    Over here, alcohol is no big deal. It's just part of daily life. In France, children often start drinking around the age of ten. I hasten to point out that they start drinking SMALL AMOUNTS, at meals, under the supervision of their families.
    The idea of sitting down for a good (and expensive!) meal in a restaurant like Walt's and being told that you can only drink Coke with your foie gras is just unthinkable. It was a stupid decision by the resort management, pure and simple. More than this, however, it also felt patronising. "We're not going to let you drink any wine, in case you all cause trouble. There are children around, you know." No responsible adult in Europe is going to appreciate that sort of thing.

    The same goes for the food. The idea that you weren't allowed to choose what you ate, but had to be fed by Disney, left a bad taste in many mouths. (No pun intended, by the way.) It was a financial decision as well, of course, but that's hardly an excuse. People arriving at the park were expecting Disney's prices to be outrageously inflated (which they mostly were), and the food to be of poor quality. (Not entirely true, but not entirely false, either.) But once again, Disney were taking the decision out of their customers' hands, and telling them what was best.

    Finally, exactly the same principal applies to smoking. The French love to smoke. So does most of the continent. There ARE no anti-smoking laws over here. (Well, not like in California, anyway.) People are left to make up their own minds.

    Now I'm a non-smoker, and can't stand the stink of tobacco myself. I'd love to have the same system as in Japan, with everyone sticking to the rules. But we're not in Japan, and Europeans will smoke if they want to. You can't just ignore them and point to the rule book, because they'll carry on regardless. Remember, it's a different culture, with a different view of life.

    You can't fight it, so just learn to grin and bear it. That's what travel's all about after all. C'est la vie, mon ami.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by PATMAGIC
    Maybe this could be just me but you seem to see that anything in Europe is bad most of the time.
    In one of his posts on laughingplace.com TDLFAN called Europe living in dark age. Since he's native of a third-rank American protectorate, I think we can forgive his ignorance :devil:

    The main problem with his attitude to DLP is a lack of _current_ visits to the parks. During the last three years I personally spent about 3 weeks in DLP and I never experienced any problem with smokers or too much trash there even when Disneyland was packed. Surely I saw a lot of shortcomings, e.g. dead trees on the berm, rusted SM roof two years ago or mediocre service in Auberge de Cendrillon, but overall my experience was positive, I would not return to DLP otherwise.

  10. #25

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    Actually, he was there this February... Came back with a lot of photos of bins in bad shape.

    But I'm interested to hear what he means by that "dark age" thing... Really I am, not merely sarcastically. Because I will agree with him that there are too many countries that need to be cleaned up a little as they're filled with smokey, dark buildings, haha. The UK and Belgium are examples. But that's just my silly interpretation of "dark".

    Why do we need to put this under a microscope anyway? Different continents mean different ways of thinking, different cultures, different histories. Deal with it.
    Last edited by pussnboots; 05-23-2005 at 12:03 PM.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulyahoo
    In one of his posts on laughingplace.com TDLFAN called Europe living in dark age. Since he's native of a third-rank American protectorate, I think we can forgive his ignorance :devil:
    That would be a native of Puerto Rico for those who would not know what you are talking about... A 3rd rank Commonwealth (protectorate is not the right word for it), but you would not know that because more than 50% Americans don't even know that island is sucking "milk" from the Feds without paying one single penny in federal taxes like us idiots do in the mainland, much less be a part of the USA. Let's see... getting Federal benefits and not paying federal taxes... Hmmm.... Puerto Ricans like me are definitely ignorant while all the way to the bank.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulyahoo
    The main problem with his attitude to DLP is a lack of _current_ visits to the parks. During the last three years I personally spent about 3 weeks in DLP and I....
    Now you are the one being ignorant here Paul. I went to DLRP this past February and march on two separate visits and (since you love to bring on LP into this discussion) I posted two separate trip reports and pictorials about the park, praising the good and the not so good as well. Last year, I visited DLRP a couple of times as well... so it seems to me you don't know what you are talking about in regards to me, my travels, and everything else in between.

  13. #28

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    UHHHMMMM so are they gonna allow smoking at Hong Kong Disneyland or not? And where's my shark fin soup, I ordered it like an hour ago!

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by PATMAGIC
    Sorry but I had to speak my mind some time.
    You don't have to apologize for stating your opinions which I have read and respected. However, they won't change my impression of the things I have witnessed at DLRP. Please understand that I am talking about "in-park" experiences and observations I have made over and over in my many visits to DLRP. I don't mean to label the entire continent since I agree with many of the positive things you and pussnboots are arguing about.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundtracker
    It was also decided that guests would not be allowed to bring their own food into the park, and bags were searched at the entrance. If any food was discovered (including things like chocolate bars and bottled drinks), the guest was either turned away or the food was confiscated...

    Over here, alcohol is no big deal. It's just part of daily life. In France, children often start drinking around the age of ten. I hasten to point out that they start drinking SMALL AMOUNTS, at meals, under the supervision of their families.
    The idea of sitting down for a good (and expensive!) meal in a restaurant like Walt's and being told that you can only drink Coke with your foie gras is just unthinkable. It was a stupid decision by the resort management, pure and simple. More than this, however, it also felt patronising. "We're not going to let you drink any wine, in case you all cause trouble. There are children around, you know." No responsible adult in Europe is going to appreciate that sort of thing.

    The same goes for the food. The idea that you weren't allowed to choose what you ate, but had to be fed by Disney, left a bad taste in many mouths. (No pun intended, by the way.) It was a financial decision as well, of course, but that's hardly an excuse. People arriving at the park were expecting Disney's prices to be outrageously inflated (which they mostly were), and the food to be of poor quality. (Not entirely true, but not entirely false, either.) But once again, Disney were taking the decision out of their customers' hands, and telling them what was best... C'est la vie, mon ami.
    Yeah France is the world's cuisine capital and I remember going to the park when it opened with my French host family (I was an exchange student in high school at the time) and they were shocked at how bad theme park food from Disney was. It was kind of embarassing as there is good food in America at nice restaurants but we had to go to the Wild West Show for BBQ to experience any decent American cuisine.

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