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  1. #16

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    My opinion is... the one park that will hurt the most from HKDL's problems is WDW's MK. After all... isn't the Mk succesful enough, so they say? So guess where the money to help HKDL will come from? ..and which park will continue to be left alone to rot...

  2. #17

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Another good point, TDLFAN.

    Why not just let the Hong Kong Disney Entertainment Dept. go crazy with more events like the recent Pirate Takeover and holiday themed park wide festivals, and make it more of a showcase for live entertainment.

    From what I can tell, that's why Ocean Park with so many varied amusements beats HKDL with the local population.

    The 1950s DL that was a part of Americana and American cultural history is not the way Chinese remember the 50s and 60s. True, the Chinese middle class is growing at a quick rate, like the US in the post WW II era.

    But times have changed, and perhaps Disney needs to think outside the box. Build a Downtown Disney Entertainment center and let some of the HK chefs set up shop, include a Universal Ampitheater style venue for hosting larger events that are hard ticketed.

    Build it up the way Universal would, make it hip without 'TRYING to be hip', which is diffferent. Allow them to adapt the place to local sensibilities, find out what the existing parkgoers WOULD want. Maybe if they have a little room to create something from within, they might think of things Westerners would not anticipate.

  3. #18

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    Smile Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterwhite171 View Post
    Do you really see Disney funding this massive E-Ticket that the park needs? I dont think so.
    All it needs is SUPER PIRATE MOUNTAIN and a TOWER OF TERROR.

    Seriously, I don't think so dude.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peterwhite171 View Post
    All the park will get is clones of some Fantasyland Atrractions...

    HK Disney is currently in serious trouble...
    You may be right about this. But I think the solution is outside this box.

    The US and Japan are more alike in a lot of ways than Japan and the rest of Asia.
    Hong Kong has a wealthy sector of people with disposable income, but not enough to sustain a park like in the USA. It needs some outside visitors from Australia Japan and China to make it work. To do that, I say wine, dine and dazzle em. Make it a fun experience all day and night, like a cruise. Not a place way out in the boonies from the city that closes early with no nightlife. Which is I think what you've got there now.

  4. #19

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    It needs some outside visitors from Australia Japan and China to make it work. To do that, I say wine, dine and dazzle em. Make it a fun experience all day and night, like a cruise. Not a place way out in the boonies from the city that closes early with no nightlife. Which is I think what you've got there now.
    I'd daresay the majority of Australian tourists wouldn't even know the Hong Kong park exists. The Disney.com.au website - and any other promotion you see in this country - tends to be exclusively for the Californian park. It would make sense to promote a park that is only 8-9 hours away rather than 14-15 hours away, but I understand that the Australian market in the US is quite lucrative. From the amount of Aussie accents I heard while I was there, I guess we - and most other English-speaking tourists - provide a fair bit of bread and butter to the American parks. Not to overstate our importance - as I am pretty sure Americans still make up the majority of tickets in the American parks - but plugging the cheaper and closer Hong Kong park to us would probably dent what Australians spend on the US parks. Just as TDLFan argued with the investment choice being between HKDL and the already successful MK, it seems Disney would be more likely to invest in something that is already a success.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.” - Bill Hicks


  5. #20

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by Loomis View Post
    I'd daresay the majority of Australian tourists wouldn't even know the Hong Kong park exists. The Disney.com.au website - and any other promotion you see in this country - tends to be exclusively for the Californian park. It would make sense to promote a park that is only 8-9 hours away rather than 14-15 hours away, but I understand that the Australian market in the US is quite lucrative. From the amount of Aussie accents I heard while I was there, I guess we - and most other English-speaking tourists - provide a fair bit of bread and butter to the American parks. Not to overstate our importance - as I am pretty sure Americans still make up the majority of tickets in the American parks - but plugging the cheaper and closer Hong Kong park to us would probably dent what Australians spend on the US parks. Just as TDLFan argued with the investment choice being between HKDL and the already successful MK, it seems Disney would be more likely to invest in something that is already a success.
    Disney had hoped that the large number of British visitors to Walt Disney World would opt to go to Disneyland Paris. That back fired and the British tourists continued to go to Florida. With that in mind, I can understand why Disney isn't hoping too much to change the pattern of visitors, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Hong Kong is not nearly as close as Britain is to France, and lacks, as far as I know, that good old rivaly.

    I'm rather sick of these "Disneyland had problems" excuses. Of course Disneyland had problems and oddities. Disneyland still suffers from some of those issues. Here's the key difference though, Disneyland was built over fifty years ago and was the first. Disneyland was the proving ground. Walt Disney World built on the lessons of Disneyland. Tokyo Disneyland didn't follow enough in terms of Americana but quickly adapted. After the Euro Disney fiasco substance was the scapegoat, and the mistake continues to be made.

  6. #21

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Tokyo Disneyland didn't follow enough in terms of Americana but quickly adapted.
    I think you got that wrong. When TDL opened, OLC wanted to offer the japanese guests a totally foreign and totally American-like experience as was presented to guests in the USA. Then, as success set in, they were able to incorporate some of their own culture into the park's activities to broaden the park's appeal. So much so that many japanese concider TDL as "their own". Yet to this day.. truly western celebrations (like Halloween and Xmas) co-exit peacefully with such asian traditions like New Year Holidays, and Star Festivals, and better yet, OLC beats the crap out of Disney when it comes to operating that resort. The sheer amount of spectacular events with character-heavy participation, special events that celebrate Disney and the park's history, and merchandise and menus tailored to the japanese likes and tastes, is what makes TDR so sucessful today, and overall the very best Disney theme park experience around. Walt Disney Co. could only wish they could emulate OLC in offering such a vast and varied Disney experience at their other resorts... Only WDW comes a bit close to that, and only because they had size to fill up.

  7. #22

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    The success of Disney Sea is simple: the park is not operated by TWDC. The Japanese owner is willing to spend money to get the most popular E-ticket attractions, while the TWDC management at Hong Kong Disneyland still don't know where should they go.

    For example: The marketing department in HKDL said they are going to target young people in future (and that's why they had a party event last month), but the planning department decided to build an IASW in the park... do you think IASW is a solution for such marketing objective?

    Regarding the entertainment events, I think the Entertainment Department in HKDL did try very hard in Halloween, Christmas and the Chinese New Year but you can see the result is reduced attendance figure. Bringing more E-tickets to HKDL is the only solution to save the park from failure. Chinese Customers will not be satisfied with the so-called “new” attractions that already appeared in the other park 40 years ago.

  8. #23

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Bring more E Tickets but not ones which already appeared in other parks many years ago? So who's going to spend the increased research and development for new ride systems and for the outlay of creative resources to invent new ideas to develop?

    Brand new attractions debuting at HKDL would cost double what it would cost to take the blueprints from Splash Mountain and find a suitable location and hire construction workers to build it. That's why "cloned" attractions cost less to build than their predecessors did when they were brand new.

    If they hadn't built Mickey's PhilHarmagic, the budget could probably have been used to import two additional Fantasyland dark rides like Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland. But since a lot of their customers didn't grow up with Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland, it seemed more appropriate to have just one dark ride Winnie The Pooh, and an AA show that introduces many of the Disney characters.

    This was probably a better choice than opening Fantasyland with PP, AIW and WTP, all of which would have already appeared in other parks but there'd be 3 attractions instead of 2.

    So that's why you see the Fantasy Gardens meet and greet pavilions, to literally introduce you to the characters. And the Golden Mickey's is billed as "a musical celebration of Disney's best-loved films, songs and characters."

    Besides Winnie the Pooh, the only Fantasyland RIDES are Dumbo, the Carousel and the Tea Cups. Other "attractions" listed include The Castle, Snow White Grotto (wishing well and statues), and the train station.

    The original Disneyland has twelve actual RIDES plus a Princess meet and greet. I'd argue you could clone 6 of them for the same price as imagineering two or three new concepts.

    If your goal is to maximize the number of attractions with a limited budget, it makes more sense to revisit succesful concepts that work in the other parks, and maybe improve upon them a bit before building them in HK DL. Then, when the other parks are refurbished, they steal the 'new HK effects' and eventually all the parks get refreshed. This cycle benefits all the parks, and having a new Magic Kingdom open every 10-12 years has this effect on the older parks.

    That's why I don't see more foreign parks and cloning attractions as such terrible things. I think it's all right to have Disney parks in places where the population can afford to pay to enjoy them, and where the local people actually want the parks.

  9. #24

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    You've got to spend money to make money.
    Build it, and they will come.


    No other way around it. =)

  10. #25

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    I think you got that wrong. When TDL opened, OLC wanted to offer the japanese guests a totally foreign and totally American-like experience as was presented to guests in the USA.
    Everything I have read suggests that the first year or two offered a much more Japanese experience that what followed. But, I wasn't alive back then, and I've yet to see the Disney magic.

  11. #26

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Everything I have read suggests that the first year or two offered a much more Japanese experience that what followed. But, I wasn't alive back then, and I've yet to see the Disney magic.
    Well... I have been visiting TDL regularly since 1989 and the park was quite American-like back then as it has always been. However... in Paris, they wanted to follow the American ways and it backfired on them. As for TDL, the only japanese experiences it offered inthe early days were "Meet the World" and "Eternal Seas", and these were never popular with the japanese. Maybe that is what some of your sources are suggesting?

  12. #27

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    I seem to remember Tokyo Disneyland having problems during the first few years because of the OLC's desire to run things their own way instead of listening to the WDC. One example was that the park catered much to the Japanese instead of focusing on international guests. This caused the appeal of a Magic Kingdom to lose a bit of its luster (especially since the Japanese wanted a a Disneyland, not another Japanese theme park). All the cast were Japanese (including face characters), and you would only find Japanese food being served in the eateries. It didn't really become Americanized until 1989 I believe, even though the basic structure of the Magic Kingdom was already there.
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  13. #28

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    Re: HK Disney taking a loss, Paris Disney profiting in hotels

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    I seem to remember Tokyo Disneyland having problems during the first few years because of the OLC's desire to run things their own way instead of listening to the WDC. One example was that the park catered much to the Japanese instead of focusing on international guests. This caused the appeal of a Magic Kingdom to lose a bit of its luster (especially since the Japanese wanted a a Disneyland, not another Japanese theme park). All the cast were Japanese (including face characters), and you would only find Japanese food being served in the eateries. It didn't really become Americanized until 1989 I believe, even though the basic structure of the Magic Kingdom was already there.
    Well, most of that could be correct and I don't know that to be fact or not. But TDL's offerings were pure american style. Characters didn't run around in kimonos and the like all of the time. And while shows were in japanese language, most was done in american fashion. I can understand why there could be japanese staff doing face characters.. since back in 1983, Japan seemed so far far far away and no one really knew much about TDL due to the casual technology of communications and internet being non-existant back then. However.. I do have photos and video of TDL from the very early days..(around 1984-86) where you can clearly see the park had an american feel and most face characters and some show performers were westerners.
    There is no denying that the japanese culture has influenced TDR to the point of making it the very best resort in regards to service, cleanliness and overall, militant quality. It works for TDR and makes this particular Disney experience far superior to the other 4 resorts. I appreciate how everything is in perfect order and guests are respectful of others and obey the posted rules and CM directives, which is something I hardly see at our parks and especially DLP.

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