Shanghai Disneyland in 2012

[Witches of Morva]

ORGOCH: Not ta change the subject er nothin' like that but....Yo! Choeteboy, ducklin' up there!! Ain't yerself the same ducklin' that me 'n my two looney sisters met up with down in Florida this past October ta do some frog huntin' with--off a Tom Sawdust Island? I gotta feelin' ya is an' if'n I'm right, well, just wanted ta give ya my best regards.

ORDDU: Oh, he's the same duckling all right, dear. And a fine specimen of a man he is, too!

ORWEN: I just hope I'm the first witch he asks to go with him on a trip to Hong Kong Disneyland.

[Asa]

Liking and completely having no knowledge about are two different things.

Fine, I will give you that they have seen this big eared mouse many times. But that does not mean they KNOW what it is about.

The point is, you want them to pay RMB300 to enter Disneyland? Fat chance.

Remember Tokyo Disneyland is so successful because of the huge number of locals that enter the park. Chinese people just don't feel the same way to American theme parks. You might have a better chance of success building one in Taiwan, which is more familiar with American (and Japanese) culture.

[CheriBibi]

Pourquoi?

Especially if the weather is better in Hong Kong. Wouldn't it make more sense to make it happen there?

Why not build Euro Disney II in Greece, Malta or Southern Spain?

Well Euro Disney was the WDW park opened first with no test park... That was europe, they thought they could figure... Unfortunately they didn't. I think HKD is there, cuz the China Gvrnt didn't want to throw too much money first, and because there is definitely room for several disney parks in china.

Considering all the politics involved, this course of evolution seems pretty logical to me.

[CheriBibi]

Even Saks Fifth Avenue had a deal with a Hong Kong Retail Group "I.T" to license Saks Fifth Avenue name in China. But according to latest news released in Hong Kong, Senior Management at "I.T" told reporters that they were unable to open any Saks Fifth Avenue stores in Shanghai due to the unsatisfactory sales performance in Mainland China, when the conditions in Shanghai improve they might open a La Fayette store in shanghai instead. You might see a Saks Fifth Avenue Store in Macau but Not Shanghai in the near future.

Hong Kong based upscale retail group "Lane Crawford" closed down all stores in Shanghai due to poor sales performance and instead they have opened a brand new store in Beijing.

Couldn't this have anything to do with the fact that every article Saks Avenue sells is already widely counterfeited in China ?

As far as I know, there's been only one case of disney park counterfeit, NaraLand in Japan, and it closed a few years ago (one lame counterfeit by the way). What Disney Attractions sells is not comparable to Saks Avenue or les Galeries Lafayette...

[Cmash95]

this is the government trying to put a good spin on a bad situation. there are so many problems in China these days and many companies are considering closing factories and moving because of the lead situation and the dog food mess and let's not forget about the toothpaste and such. China grew too fast and now has to deal with labor shortages and food shortages of their own since most of their peasant farmers have migrated to the cities to find work. Things may change in a few years, but right now neither mainland china nor india have the infrastructure or the money to support a resort like disneyland.

[josh_kslow]

Fine, I will give you that they have seen this big eared mouse many times. But that does not mean they KNOW what it is about.

The point is, you want them to pay RMB300 to enter Disneyland? Fat chance.

Remember Tokyo Disneyland is so successful because of the huge number of locals that enter the park. Chinese people just don't feel the same way to American theme parks. You might have a better chance of success building one in Taiwan, which is more familiar with American (and Japanese) culture.

Asa was right. China's culture is very much different with its neighbours even with Hong Kong. Mainland Chinese usually do not support products from overseas and they prefer their own production.

So it will be hard to ask a Mainland Chinese to get into an American theme park for that expensive price compared to other local theme parks. Hong Kong is different because they have a different mentality as they were colonised by the Britains for so many years.

[Sir_Cliff]

this is the government trying to put a good spin on a bad situation. there are so many problems in China these days and many companies are considering closing factories and moving because of the lead situation and the dog food mess and let's not forget about the toothpaste and such. China grew too fast and now has to deal with labor shortages and food shortages of their own since most of their peasant farmers have migrated to the cities to find work. Things may change in a few years, but right now neither mainland china nor india have the infrastructure or the money to support a resort like disneyland.

Yup, as I mentioned in my last post, that is my point of view. China and India look like countries with the potential to one day be good markets for Disney theme parks, but they're certainly not there yet.

Disney does also seem to opperate under the assumption that everyone everywhere will be as enthusiastic about Disney theme parks as the Americans and Japanese and so will centre vacations around them and drop huge amounts of money. Just think of all the wild projections about how much money the Europeans who were supposed to flock to DLP were going to spend on merchandise and hotel rooms and the draw the name 'Disneyland' was supposed to have in HK that would overcome a lack of attractions. So far they've been proved wrong in both instances. Both Europe and HK are far more familiar with American culture than mainland China, so I get the feeling they would have if anything more difficulties in Shanghai.

[CheriBibi]

Europeans who were supposed to flock to DLP

Intersting, but I think regarding DLRP, the major mistake was to theme the resort to the great AMERICA. What was in their mind when they thought every single hotel theme should be related to america ? Did they think, that being living in europe already, Europeans wouldn't have any other attention than America ? I know 95% of the french would love to stay in an hotel themed to Venise or Florence, or a British Cottage.
Even though I love the hotels at DLRP, the choice of the theme always stunned me, and may be in part responsible for the early failing hotel attendance figures of the history of the park.

Anyway, just my bit of thought and hope... That they won't do the same mistake again. Disney theme parks are not about AMERICA... They're about dreams and fantasy, and those differs among many cutlures...

[Sir_Cliff]

Intersting, but I think regarding DLRP, the major mistake was to theme the resort to the great AMERICA. What was in their mind when they thought every single hotel theme should be related to america ? Did they think, that being living in europe already, Europeans wouldn't have any other attention than America ? I know 95% of the french would love to stay in an hotel themed to Venise or Florence, or a British Cottage.
Even though I love the hotels at DLRP, the choice of the theme always stunned me, and may be in part responsible for the early failing hotel attendance figures of the history of the park.

Anyway, just my bit of thought and hope... That they won't do the same mistake again. Disney theme parks are not about AMERICA... They're about dreams and fantasy, and those differs among many cutlures...

That is a very good point. The whole resort was kind of built as a big celebration of America which was a very odd direction in which to go for a resort in France. Even at WDW they've used Polynesian, African and Caribbean motifs for resorts, and an Arabian-themed resort would have tied perfectly with DLP's Adventureland. It really was an odd choice to theme each hotel to America (not to mention building so many of them).

Maybe what they really need to do before they build another park is really figure out how to integrate the parks more successfully into the local culture. Part of the reason they're so successful in the US is that they present a fundamentally American view of the world and thus have themselves become an integral part of American culture. Perhaps they have to build these parks so that they don't come across as inherently American and a form of cultural imperialism. Maybe the Disneyland concept needs to be tweaked far more extensively and much more local involvement is needed in the future.

[TDR_Fan]

I dislike almost all the Disney hotels at Disneyland Resort Paris. With the exception of the Disneyland Hotel, none of them particularly scream "Disney" or quality to me. Most of them are very loosely themed and even kind of ugly and not aesthetically pleasing at all. Add to that the fact that they're all run down and far behind in comparison to Disney hotels of the same price range at other Disney resorts.

[Sir_Cliff]

I dislike almost all the Disney hotels at Disneyland Resort Paris. With the exception of the Disneyland Hotel, none of them particularly scream "Disney" or quality to me. Most of them are very loosely themed and even kind of ugly and not aesthetically pleasing at all. Add to that the fact that they're all run down and far behind in comparison to Disney hotels of the same price range at other Disney resorts.

I think part of the problem was that Eisner was wanting to make some great architectural statement and so brought in all these big name architects to give their takes on America in a bid to be taken seriously in architectural circles. While some of them may be interesting as architectural statements, I agree that most don't feel very Disney and aren't aging particularly well. Beyond the hotels, the most glaring example of this is the Disney Village which is just plain ugly.

I've always thought that Eisner saw this as his chance to cast himself as a new Walt Disney leaving a lasting legacy based on his own vision. Unfortunately I don't think he is quite as perceptive and creative as he thinks he is.

[TDR_Fan]

I think part of the problem was that Eisner was wanting to make some great architectural statement and so brought in all these big name architects to give their takes on America in a bid to be taken seriously in architectural circles. While some of them may be interesting as architectural statements, I agree that most don't feel very Disney and aren't aging particularly well. Beyond the hotels, the most glaring example of this is the Disney Village which is just plain ugly.

I've always thought that Eisner saw this as his chance to cast himself as a new Walt Disney leaving a lasting legacy based on his own vision. Unfortunately I don't think he is quite as perceptive and creative as he thinks he is.

I agree. Aside from Robert A.M. Stern (who has designed some wonderful hotels for Walt Disney World and one for the Tokyo Disney Resort), I feel the rest of the architects failed to capture the magic and immersion that Disney hotels are supposed to provide. Even still, I feel the Newport Bay and Cheyenne are not two of Stern's best works given his portfolio. The Newport Bay pales in comparison to the Yacht/Beach Club Resorts and the Boardwalk Inn, all of which share a similar theme and design.

[Coheteboy]

ORGOCH: Not ta change the subject er nothin' like that but....Yo! Choeteboy, ducklin' up there!! Ain't yerself the same ducklin' that me 'n my two looney sisters met up with down in Florida this past October ta do some frog huntin' with--off a Tom Sawdust Island? I gotta feelin' ya is an' if'n I'm right, well, just wanted ta give ya my best regards.

ORDDU: Oh, he's the same duckling all right, dear. And a fine specimen of a man he is, too!

ORWEN: I just hope I'm the first witch he asks to go with him on a trip to Hong Kong Disneyland.

Haha thanks, yah that was me. Don't know when I'll get the chance to hit Hong Kong though.

[Witches of Morva]

ORDDU: Maybe a side trip to Morva would work out even better?

ORGOCH: Is ya nuts? That coheteboy's got more smarts 'n ta git hisself all tangled up with a tramp like yerself!

ORWEN: I guess I'm the witch who has to get this message back on topic. And I just wanna' say that when we last looked into the crystal ball, we didn't see ANY sort to Disney theme park going into ANY part of Asia.

[vfire]

Has Disney ever considered Australia as a new theme park location? It probably would have been a better location than Hong Kong. Certainly a lot of land down under to make a big theme park.