8/13: Chic or Cheap?

[KevinYee]

Originally Posted by TravisMT81

I find it hilarious that people are upset they cannot access private property.

"Upset" is far too strong a word. Puzzled more accurately captures it, at least for me.

[bayouguy]

I think WDW does owe the public some signage or guest relation folks to let people know of the restricted space. I hope though that they keep an open door policy on the other resort hotels. I haven't been to WDW in many years but I sort of look at the hotels as attractions. At Disneyland, my wife, daughter and I go to the Grand Californian Lobby and sit, rest, drink some wine and let our daughter fall asleep. I really appreciate the welcome policy from the Grand Californian. So, just ignore the new Contemporary Villas as if they were not there.

[Bob Cutlass]

Concerning the look of the hallways and the exterior, cheap is definitely not the word I'd use for it. It doesn't look like cost cutting at all. To me, it looks...uninspired. It is all very clean and upscale and modern, but it isn't Disney, which sounds cliche but I feel is correct. I look at that and it looks like it could be any hotel that's going for a modern vibe. Now the pictures I've seen of the actual rooms and the lounge, now they definitely look inspired, at least in my opinion.

I can see both sides of the security argument. On one hand, it is a high-end resort, and you have to expect that sort of thing just by its nature. Then again, though I've only been to WDW once, from everything I've heard it sounds like resort-hopping to see other hotels you're not staying at is not only interesting for the guest, but useful for Disney from a marketing perspective. I'm sure there are some guests who don't have the time or desire to take a full formal tour. Then again, if there is little in the way of features other than guest rooms, an exclusive lounge, and the pool, then there is little reason for people other than registered guests to be there. But then going back to the other side, if I was a registered guest staying there, I'd find the strict security, especially the procedure for the rooftop fireworks viewing, to be a little disconcerting and not give me that "welcome home" vibe. You'd just want it all to be a little more transparent.

With the DVC pitch, I've heard nothing but good things about Disney's friendly, low pressure approach (and that surprises me, since Disney otherwise doesn't strike me as being shy in their attempts to part you from your money). So for now, I hope it is safe to assume that this individual CM just had a strong personality, or just didn't get the memo on Disney's way of handling DVC pitches.

Finally, you'll get no complaint from me about the "New to Me" section. I've only been to WDW once, and I'll be going for the second time next week, so it is all "new to me" anyway. I'm sure this will be an interesting feature.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by drnilescrane

It's all well known and published fact that Michael Eisner didn't care for the Contemporary...

Yep, that Michael was a paragon of good taste in architecture. Personally oversaw the design of the Team Disney Burbank (7 Dwarves) building and the DLR parking structure. Southern California architects still get group discounts on lubricating eyedrops from all the eyerolling that went on when he was calling the shots.

And speaking of eyerolling...

Originally Posted by TravisMT81

I find it hilarious that people are upset they cannot access private property.

Originally Posted by alan1701

...it sounds like Kevin was just a little jealous.

What's amusing (in a groaning way) to me are the readers who attribute a personal bias to the author that is not even remotely implied in his writing.

It's similar in style to the personal shots that some readers post in their feedback to online newspaper op-ed columnists.

Kevin? Welcome to the big time!

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by Bob Cutlass

from everything I've heard it sounds like resort-hopping to see other hotels you're not staying at is not only interesting for the guest, but useful for Disney from a marketing perspective.

The difference is there are no real public spaces inside the building. The lounges and top of the tower are reserved for DVC owners. When you take that away, the rest of the building is purely rooms. No resturants, no grand lobbies, etc. So there isn't really anything to mull around and look at. I think that's why they blocked it off all together.

I wouldn't be suprised to see it change once the building is older.. but right now you're going to have everyone trying to sneak up into the lounges, etc.. locking them out at the outside gives another level they must find their way through before trying to pass into the lounges too.

[davidgra]

Originally Posted by KevinYee

Hmm. At one point, they advertised the annual pass as your key to all the parks and all the resorts. That would make annual passholders into paying guests. On top of that, I generally only go to the resorts when I'm eating in those restaurants. A privilege for which I do pay, making me a paying guest.

The first statement here is patently untrue. The annual pass has never been advertised as a "key" to all the parks and all the resorts. A standard annual pass does not allow access to the water parks, and anyone with that expectation would just be plain wrong.

Second, an annual pass has never had any resort privileges, aside from discounts on room prices. Simply owning an annual pass cannot get you into a room in a resort, nor can it get you a meal in a restaurant.

So even though you are a "paying" customer by owning an annual pass, you can't go everywhere you want on property.

The second comment, about dining at the restaurants, is completely irrelevant to this discussion, as the Bay Lake Tower has no restaurant (or even gift shop). Based on Kevin's logic, the Bay Lake Tower SHOULD be closed to non-guests since there is no way to spend money there without renting a room.

[KevinYee]

Originally Posted by davidgra

The first statement here is patently untrue. The annual pass has never been advertised as a "key" to all the parks and all the resorts. A standard annual pass does not allow access to the water parks, and anyone with that expectation would just be plain wrong.

Second, an annual pass has never had any resort privileges, aside from discounts on room prices. Simply owning an annual pass cannot get you into a room in a resort, nor can it get you a meal in a restaurant.

So even though you are a "paying" customer by owning an annual pass, you can't go everywhere you want on property.

The second comment, about dining at the restaurants, is completely irrelevant to this discussion, as the Bay Lake Tower has no restaurant (or even gift shop). Based on Kevin's logic, the Bay Lake Tower SHOULD be closed to non-guests since there is no way to spend money there without renting a room.

I'll see if I can dig up the 2004 advertisements about the premium annual pass (which I've had for years now). There was language there about "you will have the run of the World" or some such.

If my premium annual pass is not meant to encourage me to visit the resort hotel restaurants, why do I get a discount there? Note that one of the restaurants which gives a discount to annual passholders is Olivia's, which is found at a DVC resort.

Hence my confusion in the article.

Your last point is logically argued. But I didn't know that when I wandered across the bridge.

[WDW1974]

Kevin ... a few Spirited thoughts.

First, and don't take this the wrong way, but I consider it a good thing that Disney hasn't included you -- and others -- on press events/previews. They've blurred the line way too much as is ... after all, WDW Social Media exists for no reason beyond co-opting the online crowd so they discuss how magical WDW is instead of say how monorails and buses are allowed to smash into one another or how children are getting didled at water parks or how they are constantly nickel and diming their guests (no prime rib anywhere on property now ... or $8 tastings that have always been free at Food and Wine Fest for example).

Bloggers aren't media. Many aren't professionals at anything. Many are bored housewives, soccer moms, people living off family or the government or both -- not you but I'm pretty familar with the fan community-- and when their views get placed alongside what remains of real media, you damn well know the results will always be glowing reviews of whatever Disney does.

Simply put, taking a zillion pictures of DVC construction does not make someone a journalist. It doesn't level the playing field anymore than talking with some celeb Imagineer like Tony Baxter at a fan event does. And I don't care who the individual is from Al Lutz to Deb Wills to Jim Hill to Jeff Lange to Dave Marx to Mike Scopa etc ... to yourself.

There are many people who have come to make a living off of the Mouse's back and it's really fascinating to watch as we've had well over a decade of 'net coverage.

Now, with that setup, I'll offer up a very reasoned hypothesis that within a year Disney will invite you and anyone and their mother to anything ... media is dying, Disney is whoring and there are seemingly endless sources for free publicity online. Why wouldn't you want to invite someone to an event when they'll put the most inane Disney items on their sites and play them up? You invite them and feed them and ply them with swag and make them chortle with glee over free chintz or the chance to drool over Dave Smith! (ick!!! that even makes me ill!!!)

Now ... onto the BLT. Got two 'tours' of it last month ... one via the AP route and one via the CM friend route. I like the units a lot. They are the most high end units Disney has ever done, but still aren't quite on par with other higher end timeshares I've stayed at like Hyatt Key West and Hilton Grand Vacations on the Vegas Strip. But these units are worlds away from OKW and BW (both of which are in very serious need of upgrades/renovations).

Having no locks on the bathrooms is a big problem (one that others have mentioned on other sites as well) and really shows utter stupidity on the part of the designers. Another problem? Bird waste. Some of the balconies were so coated in it that you'd have though workers had dropped paint buckets from above.

The views are incredible, though. And people may look at MK as the money view, but to me the Bay Lake side is what I'd want. Just beautiful and peaceful and largely looking like it did when Walt flew over in his plane.

On one hand, I understand your frustration with not being allowed access. On the other, I understand and agree with the policy. What purpose do you have there? Just looking is fine in a shop or hotel lobby or auto dealership lot ... but a timeshare tower?

There's no good reason to let swarms of guests descend on the place. And you better believe that parking and pyro viewing (even on just the bridge between towers) will be huge problems if Disney doesn't crack down.

That actually brings me to another 'issue' I have with BLT. Top of the World is waaaaaaaay too small. While there's plenty of viewing outside, it seems to me they could have easily tripled the space of the lounge ... maybe even making it two-level. But it's small and controlling capacity will be a big issue.

Have also heard conflicting statements regarding who is allowed access. Some say anyone staying there, others just on DVC points, others just owners on their own points. I know if I rent a one-bedroom, I'll be plenty pissed if I don't have access to the lounge.

FWIW, I don't know if you realize it, but other resorts have been set up for restricting access with card keys for years. BW, WL and BCV all immediately come to mind as places where the systems exist (take a look for them) and may have been used to some degree at some point. I stayed at WL the week it opened (and well over 80 or 90 nights since) but don't recall whether it's ever been used.

The bottom line, though, is there's no shopping or dining or recreation that is open to general public/guests at the BLT. So it does come down to the whole 'just checking it out' excuse ... and if you or anyone wants to all you need to do is sign up for a tour ... it'll be private, it'll be at your pace and you can ask questions all you want.

But the BLT isn't the All Star Movies or Port Orleans or the Boardwalk ... and I understand the desire and need to limit access.

I'm reasonably sure that when Disney announces the Grand Floridian Beach Villas (yeah, they're on the agenda), that they'll be limiting access there too!

[Brandis]

Not directly resort related, but in your article you mentioned the lack of WiFi at the BLT and only having access to the internet via cable. Now, is this a dial-up line or a "plug-in and you are connected" access? If it is the latter, I can really recommend Apple's Airport Express WiFi Accesspoint. You just plug it into a power socket and connect it to the network cable and you have your personal WiFi in the room.

BTW, does WDW have this kind of Internet access in all their rooms or only the newer properties? Last year, we stayed at OKW in a studio and I can't remember any internet access there, maybe besides dial-up access via phone which is of no use to me.

What is the situation at the Beach Club Resort? We will be staying there next month.

Marc

[socalkdg]

Originally Posted by stitchon

Second, I'm definitely not a fan of how the Bay Lake Tower is secured to guests in DVC only. All other resorts are public grounds and the Top of the World lounge is even MORE secured... do you really need a DVC membership to browse some halls and look at some grounds?

No key for that hotel, no reason to be walking the halls. I don't want people that aren't staying at the hotel, and we are talking any hotel, walking in the halls with rooms on each side. Public areas are fine. Why would anyone want to put up with people outside your room door that don't even belong at that hotel. Are you there to look around, take photos, make noise, cause trouble? Who knows, but its a hallway with rooms that people want to feel secure in.

It sounds like the new DVC doesn't have public areas, thus no reason for people to hang around that aren't staying there.

[mistryl]

I'm not sure how any of the other advertising was, but there were radio ads for WDW in winter 2002 that say "tis the season to feel like you own the place." While the whole key-to-the-kingdom thing is merely implied and not stated there, I will say that when I first bought my first premium annual pass, I specifically remember the CM telling me "this pass is your golden key to all of walt disney world." The sleeve that the pass came in even HAD a image of golden key right there on it!

As for "not being allowed" at the pool of BLT, when I went to go look at it, I had no intention of going in, but I still had no less than three separate groups of people hold the gate open for me. The gates are useless if people are going to be so generous. I should have brought my bathing suit.

[flynnibus]

Yeah, older programs were even called "keys to the kingdom' with a golden key on it

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by TravisMT81

I find it hilarious that people are upset they cannot access private property.

I rather thought Disney wanted us to come onto their (private) property. Specifically, they want guests - not just guests of that hotel but everyone from any WDW resort or even the HoJo down on Hwy 192 - to eat in the restaurants and spend money in the shops - but that's not the only reason to be there. Indeed, the open accessibility of the WDW resorts has long been touted as a marketing tool; Let off-site guests explore a Disney resort and see what its like, and maybe they'll stay on-site next vacation. You can openly stroll about the Polynesian at your leisure, maybe watch the water pageant or wishes, and have an enjoyable evening. Only at the (abomination of architectural design) Bay Lake Tower are you made to feel decidedly unwelcome; Certainly such a restrictive policy doesn't make you want to stay there (or the Contemporary itself, perhaps) your next trip.

But there is a more compelling reason why the overly restrictive Bay Lake Tower lockdown seems peculiar: Disney (DVC) wants to sell you a membership. You don't do that by striving to keep people away! Sure, anyone can arrange a tour, but not everyone with even a minor interest in the place wants to. Back when the Boardwalk was new, first thing I did was take a Disney bus over there and explore the place on my own. Which was, of course, no problem at all. Only later, once we knew we were interested, did we go back for a tour and sit down to discuss details.

Same thing happens Sundays at closed car lots - you'll see people parked outside the closed gates and walking around the lot; They want to look around on their terms and not be hounded by a (often pushy) salesman. If they see something of interest, they'll come back and buy. Its not necessairily that people have no reason to be in the Bay Lake Tower if they don't have a room. I can certainly see a need to control access to the tower, anytime but especially during the evening for Wishes and at the lounge in particular, but again - this policy seems just a bit too restrictive.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that this policy potentially sets a very bad precedent for Disney resorts. I for one enjoy visiting the Polynesian even when I'm staying at the Boardwalk, or vice versa. Like the experience with AK Lodge, I would expect (hope) this policy gets relaxed just a bit to something more balanced and reasonable in time.

[AstroBlaster]

Keep up the, "New To Me" segments. I love all the little details that are so easy to miss when you are in the middle of the magic. I eagerly await your next article. This would not be my favorite DVC but I can see why people would buy into it because like with everything in real estate it's all about location. People will turn a blind eye torward the construction to have a place next to the MK.

[MrErk]

From the article:

I asked this guy if his name was on the Tempo fountain behind the lobby, which is full of names of charter members of this resort, and he laughed and said that this particular perk cost $2,500!!

Definately not true! You merely had to be among the first 1,000 DVC members to add on a minimum of 160 points.