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  1. #1

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    Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    I can't believe this!!!

    01-19) 04:00 PST Sacramento -- A Bay Area lawmaker said Thursday she will introduce a bill next week that seeks to make California the first state in the nation to ban spanking children who are 3 years old and younger.

    The legislation would make the violation a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail or a fine of up to $1,000.
    "I think we ought to have a law against beating children," said Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View.
    The lawmaker said she conceived of the idea after chatting with an acquaintance who is a legal expert on child abuse. While California would be the first state to adopt such a measure if it becomes law, it wouldn't be the first in the world. There are already 15 countries -- mostly in Europe -- that have banned hitting children.
    In an interview with The Chronicle, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he was unfamiliar with the bill but had an immediate question about its practicality.
    "How do you enforce that?" he asked.
    One lawmaker in the Assembly simply objected to the idea of legislating how parents can discipline their kids.
    "To me, this is symptomatic of this nonstop trend toward a nanny state," said Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine. "The government appears to be taking it on itself to be everybody's parent, everybody's big brother, and to legislate the tiniest details of personal family life."
    Besides, there are already laws on the books that make it illegal to abuse a child, he said.
    Lois Weithorn, who teaches family law at UC's Hastings College of the Law, said while there are both civil and criminal statutes addressing child abuse, there is room for subjectivity on what constitutes abuse.
    "There are laws on the books, but corporal punishment has always been a challenge to deal with," she said. "Most jurisdictions do not sanction parents (for) corporal punishment that doesn't result in physical injury."
    That's the reason we need a law that clearly delineates what is legal or not, Lieber said.
    "Under current law, parents can beat their children to a reasonable degree," she said. "I just think that that's plain wrong and we ought to ban any sort of physical attack on children who are not old enough to defend themselves."
    But Weithorn said even Lieber's bill could potentially be open to interpretation, such as what is spanking versus a pat on the bottom.
    "We're dealing with the challenge of drawing lines," the law professor said.
    Dr. Carol Miller, clinical professor of pediatrics at UCSF Medical Center, said she agrees corporal punishment for babies and toddlers is not appropriate. She encourages parents to make expectations appropriate and clear.
    "You remove them from the place that is off-limits and at the same time, you have to use (spoken) language, your body language such as a stern look in your face to let them know that was inappropriate," Miller said. "And at that developmental age, you have to do that over and over and over again."
    She questioned the idea of making spanking a crime that could potentially result in jail time. "I'm not quite sure how that helps the parent be a better parent," Miller said. "Separating a child from the parent ... (could potentially be) very destructive."
    Story is at SFGate.com
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  2. #2

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    wow!!! That's crazy! I swear that there already is a law about spanking kids. I studied Child Abuse and Neglect a few years ago and we learned about a law that said that parents are allowed to spank their children under certain guidelines. I believe that some of them were:

    1) The action cannot be done in anger. (The parent must wait until they are calm enough to enforce the punishment without anger)
    2) You may only spank the child's bottom.
    3) You may only spank with an open hand with the palm striking the child. (So no punching or kicking)
    4) The punishment must not leave a mark.

    There were others that I just can't think of at this moment....

  3. #3

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    I heard this on the news yesterday. That was a good question Arnold asked: How do you enforce that? Too much grey area.
    I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it.
    That explains the trouble that I'm always in...

  4. #4

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Outrageous.

    What business does the government have telling people how to raise their kids? A quick swat on the tush does not equate to child abuse, and some children simply don't respond to 'time out'.

    And I see Einstein wants us to "reason" with 2-year olds. Brilliant.

    Jeez, why not just pass a bill telling us all new children have to be signed over to the government to raise. Oh yeah, the Nazis already did it.

    Frigging socialists.

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  5. #5

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrigoon View Post
    Outrageous.

    What business does the government have telling people how to raise their kids? A quick swat on the tush does not equate to child abuse, and some children simply don't respond to 'time out'.

    And I see Einstein wants us to "reason" with 2-year olds. Brilliant.

    Jeez, why not just pass a bill telling us all new children have to be signed over to the government to raise. Oh yeah, the Nazis already did it.

    Frigging socialists.
    Well said! I got my swats on the behind (and rightfully so) and it didn't kill me and so far as I can tell it hasn't killed either of my 2 children. I am just waiting till they totaly take all parental rights away in this country or till they just decide out right who may have kids at all.
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  6. #6

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    so you want to positive reinforcement.. and the min they turn 4 hurt them??

    makes no sence..

    at 2.. getting hurt shows pain and bad...

    at 3 it enforces this means bad and you do not do it....

    at 4 its so on...

  7. #7

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    This is just a waste of time for our elected officials. There is a BIG difference between spanking your children and beating them!


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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    If a child doesn't respond to time-outs, does that mean you should spank them?

    My point was that it's impossible to regulate. Is someone going to monitor your home and watch to be sure you're not spanking? If you refer to it as a "swat" instead of a spank and do it once really quick, does it not count?

    Can't be done. That's all I'm saying.
    I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it.
    That explains the trouble that I'm always in...

  9. #9

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    I know in the case of my niece, it pretty much came down to having to be willing to give her a spank. They did the time out thing with her older brother and it worked fine with his personality, but with her it had no impact and she was getting out of control. Finally around age 6 they gave in and started giving swats, and what do you know, they got her attention. That's really what spanking is about, after all. Getting their attention and letting them know you mean business in an immediately recognizable fashion.
    Last edited by Morrigoon; 01-20-2007 at 02:23 PM.

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  10. #10

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    The legislation would make the violation a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail or a fine of up to $1,000.
    "I think we ought to have a law against beating children," said Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View.
    Hmm, so the parent spends a year in jail, so the kid doesn't have a parent for a year, real good for the kid.
    Hmm, I thought there were already laws against "beating children"....
    Now I'm not really a big fan of physical means of disciplining children, but also I am not yet a parent, so I don't know how realistic it is to expect no one to ever do it. This legislation seems a bit excessive. It is already against the law to beat children.
    ETA: to OogieBoogie-I did get a chuckle from the thread topic and your avatar

  11. #11

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Looks like Lawmakers want more money.

  12. #12

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Ah but this is the PRC (People's Republic of California) that we are increasingly living in.
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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of....so many problems will occure if this were to pass....(and I don't think it ever would)

    in addition to how do you enforce, and regulate this....you would have other implications as well...

    for example if this passes, you are going to end up with a huge number of children in the foster care system that wouldn't have been there to begin with...(not neccesarily the best place for those kids...it (foster care) has it's place, but this is not it.)

    look, you have a single parent who spanks their child...someone screams foul and locks the parent up for a year this child doesn't have other family to care for it, so they are placed in an already overcrowded foster system. Guess what Health and Human services Foster care departments, are seriously stretched thin already....

    now this child is 'in the system' removed from a parent who was trying to do the right thing for their child...but someone decided this is the wrong thing....now that child is alone (without their parent), since the bill specifies under 3 lets say this child is 2, that is a crucial year in child development, building a trusting relationship with a parent is of utmost importance. Seperating a child and parent for a year is far more detrimental to the child that a simple spanking on the bottom.

    Honestly, I feel a huge part of whats wrong with society today is that parents are afraid to parent their child....someone screams foul at everything.....

    of course some things should be reported, and action taken to protect the child, but these situations are not the norm, and to call every action against a child abuse is just ridiculous.
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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerfan View Post
    Ah but this is the PRC (People's Republic of California) that we are increasingly living in.


    Let's take a look at the schools. Teachers have been forbidden to spank kids for years, yet the courts have pretty much made it acceptible for teachers to have sexual flings with them...least wise the female instructors. "Make love" not war?

    Kids know that they can do anything they want at school without any adult being able to lay a hand on them. If some of these lawmakers have their way, kids will take over on the home front too. Mom and dad would be in for the spanking of their lives.
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  15. #15

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    Re: Bill to give jail time to people who spank their kids

    Yeah, this is just a really dumb idea. I wonder if people will start trying to retroactively sue their parent if the law if passed?

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