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  1. #31

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMoose View Post
    Call me crazy but I like to see Disney do away with the AP at Disneyland. Sounds like booth parks can not handle them anymore.
    You're definitely not the only one. The AP concept never made much business sense to me, especially after it reached a certain volume level. Disneyland is essentially a retail environment in which people WILL pay a premium (that's been shown over and over), but they still hold "fire sales." That results in guests who have little incentive to treat their experience at the park as anything particularly special -- they can do this every weekend if they want! So, they don't regard a visit to Disneyland OR the environment itself as particularly special.

    Now, I don't think most diehard Disney fans fall into this category! I'm mostly talking about teenagers and families who look at Disneyland as a cheap thing to do on the weekend. It's basically something they think of as free, so they treat it no better than a public park or a city street.

    Disney responds by trying to drive up attendance even further, because the annual passholders tend to spend very little in the park. So, the park becomes increasingly crowded and unpleasant, cast members are overwhelmed and overworked (leading to higher turnover), and attractions are pushed to their max limits.

    If you did away with the annual pass, you might only really be impacting 700,000 or so people-- but the "high user," the ones who pay the least and visit the most.

    For the first 35 years or so of its life, Disneyland was a DESTINATION, a special experience. You'd pay extra for it. Knott's Berry Farm or Magic Mountain was the weekend "amusement park," Disneyland was, well, Disneyland.

    But when the AP concept really took hold, the whole thing started falling apart. It isn't sustainable, either financially or operationally, but I don't expect Disney to give up-- not easily.

    In the meantime, I've always wondered what would happen if Disney LOWERED its admission price to say $45 for adults and $25 for children -- but offered absolutely no discounts of any kind, ever, except for employee/cast members and multi-day ticket purchases? What would happen if EVERYONE had to pay the same price, if there was no incentive to just "hang out" at Disneyland? Would attendance go down? Likely. Would per-capita spending go up? Also likely, because those in the park would be there as a special occasion, not just to kill a few hours on a Saturday evening.

  2. #32

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    People go to Disneyland anyway, regardless of a marketing campaign, but this one was just everywhere! They have to have known that they've seen an unusually high turn out of people over the last year or so than ever before. I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to be successful, but it really makes for a miserable experience when you're fighting off crowds. Dragon or no dragon is fine, I'm not going to just simply see the dragon, I enjoy the whole show.

    I like the idea that one poster on here said about AP, to maybe give people the choice of picking days that it's good for, like Mon, Thurs. Sat and Tues, Wed. Sun. or something like that. I'm not sure that it's sunk in with Disney yet, because this has been going on for awhile now and they're still reeling in the promotions as if it's the first time.

  3. #33

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Al good report!
    and I think you bring me "good news"for I one with "P" pass which means I go any time.....But I do have to agreed with some my Mice chatter's this campout before shows is to mush ! they the one taking up the walkways and ther should be more control over that !!!!! most of time I see one or two bottoms taking up large area's!!! this also make me sick!!! i for NO CAMP OUT before one hour must move after the shows for others to Enjoy!!!!

  4. #34

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by AliKzam View Post
    I can't believe those squatters would continue to sit there after the first Fantasmic show so no one else could sit there. Very uncool. Something like that would never be allowed on a busy ride, so why should a show be any different?
    I hate to generalize but some of these squatters that I have bumped into to are some of the most rude people and tend to be the ones that give the APs a bad name.

  5. #35

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Great article as always, a note though; DEP was FIFTEEN minutes late stepping off due to some costuming issues, there was no diabolical crowd control methods behind that, I don't think Disney would be able to put that 2 and 2 togethor unless by accident.

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  6. #36

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    This latest update was a nice analysis of the new attendance patterns caused by APs combined with the opening of a new attraction/entertainment. Thanks to the warnings and posts here on MiceChat last weekend, I purposely stayed away from trying to watch Magical or Fantasmic. I used to be part of the crowd that had to be there opening weekend, but as I get older, that desire to be "first" is waning considerably.

    I did check out the revamped DEP on Sunday night, but left immediately after it ended as the fireworks started overhead. I was guessing there would be the usual post-fireworks crush at the trams and hoped to avoid that as much as possible.

    And I'm taking a wild guess here, but I bet that management at Universal, Six Flags, and Busch Entertainment Corp. would love to have the problems that Disney experienced with Nightastic's opening. While the mess in the parks was a failure, I'm sure the suits would rather have this problem to solve vs. trying to deal with low attendance figures.

  7. #37

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    I was there Sat. night. I was standing in the hub with a jillion other people (no room to move there or on Main Street) waiting for the fireworks when the final pyros went off at the first Fantasmic. As I looked at all the people in the hub and the seemingly few CMs, I began to get concerned. I hoped that the people from F! would stay there to watch the fireworks. How were they going to get all those people out of Frontierland (leaving or worse, coming to watch the fireworks) and us in to watch the second F!? We had reserved tix so we couldn't abort. I figured that they had done it before and knew how to handle it.

    We waited a little to let the crowds thin. Ha! I have never been in such conditions. People with strollers seemed to have one speed - go. I can't tell you how many simply drove their strollers up the backs of my legs. I had to fight to keep from falling over onto their kids. We were only half-way to our seats when the closure annoucement was made. It didn't matter. The crowd just kept flowing. There was really nothing else you could do. And it was supposed to be worse on Sun. and Mon.!

    We made our seats. Were very disappointed about the dragon. (I had been away from the internet for several days at this point.)

    Oh well, at least it will give us another reason to go. I will not be there for the opening of World of Color, though.

  8. #38

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Why don't they limit annul passholders on premier days. like only allow the first 1000 AP's each day. Thus allowing the Tourists... the ones that will spend the $$ in the parks in. Ap's have become the problem.

  9. #39

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Unfortunately, I know that some of the information in this article is wrong. Please understand I do not mean offense by this reply, but I work Entertainment Costuming for the Disneyland Resort, and I also worked opening weekend of Nightastic on the Electrical Parade and can verify that things like the Electrical Parade being delayed "purposely" for 20 minutes is false. It was delayed do to a "Wardrobe Malfunction" as one of the characters in the parade realized moments before parade step-off that she forgot a very important costume piece back at Parade Issue (where the characters in a parade get their costumes, which is ever so conveniently located behind Toon Town.) The reason why the parade was delayed twenty minutes was because we (and yes, I was one of those who went to retrieve the costume piece) had to go all the way around the resort, find the piece, travel back to EP step off, and have the character put on the piece.

  10. #40

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by dolewhipman View Post
    Unfortunately, I know that some of the information in this article is wrong. Please understand I do not mean offense by this reply, but I work Entertainment Costuming for the Disneyland Resort, and I also worked opening weekend of Nightastic on the Electrical Parade and can verify that things like the Electrical Parade being delayed "purposely" for 20 minutes is false. It was delayed do to a "Wardrobe Malfunction" as one of the characters in the parade realized moments before parade step-off that she forgot a very important costume piece back at Parade Issue (where the characters in a parade get their costumes, which is ever so conveniently located behind Toon Town.) The reason why the parade was delayed twenty minutes was because we (and yes, I was one of those who went to retrieve the costume piece) had to go all the way around the resort, find the piece, travel back to EP step off, and have the character put on the piece.
    What character is so important that they would hold up the parade for 20 minutes? What did they forget Mickey's Head?

  11. #41

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMoose View Post
    Call me crazy but I like to see Disney do away with the AP at Disneyland. Sounds like booth parks can not handle them anymore.
    That would be for the best, I think. Just run occational promotions for locals.

  12. #42

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    Cool Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by ni_teach View Post
    What character is so important that they would hold up the parade for 20 minutes? What did they forget Mickey's Head?
    Hm... Tinkerbells wings? Anything else that would make for BAD SHOW!

    Good work on Disneyland's part. It's a show and the patrons deserve to see it in it's fullness if it can be fixed by a 20 minute delay to get it ready.

    I have been to phantom of the opera where we where not allow into the theatre for 45 minutes because they couldn't the chandelier to work and it was stuck mid air. They could have let us in and done the show without it but it would have been bad show so the delayed the show till they could fix it. Providing a good show for us all.

  13. #43

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    Smile Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by Biotron2000 View Post
    That would be for the best, I think. Just run occational promotions for locals.
    I think they should

    1. Get rid of AP's
    2. Lower the overall park ticket price a bit
    3. Define a Child as anyone under 13
    4. Have resident discounts and bouncebacks durring off season and Not durring April-September

    And if in their infinite wisdome they are going to keep AP then Black them out of all premiers of shows or hold special after hours previews for shows for just APs where it won't affect the regular patrons of the park.

  14. #44

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Oh Al, just never happy are you?

    Too many people = "Raging out-of-control crowds"

    Not enough = "Crowds staying away from Disney - Why can't TDA make it work?"

    And they sure eat a lot of food in these meetings according to Al!!


    :-) :-) :-)



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  15. #45

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    Re: 6/16: Dumbo & Dumber

    Quote Originally Posted by TDSTOM View Post
    Oh Al, just never happy are you?

    Too many people = "Raging out-of-control crowds"

    Not enough = "Crowds staying away from Disney - Why can't TDA make it work?"
    Yeah, I've been reading Al since Usenet days and it's always the same. When is he gonna learn that TDA is filled to its suspended ceiling with experts, each of whom has decades of hands-on experience managing Disneyland? Why, anyone reading Al's columns would think that for 40 years Disney wrote the book on theme park operations, then around the mid-90's threw it away.

    A company that repeatedly blows off the lessons of its own past? What a silly idea.


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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