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  1. #91

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    ^ FYI, at 3:00pm when we turned in our FlashPass to go to Jelly Belly, there were more than 100 Flashpass systems left available for rental. So I don't know if the "come early or miss out" thing really does apply.

    And when we came back to the park at 5:00 and picked up our pass to resume our fun, there were still some available.
    Well certainly that is going to be a variable based on how crowded the parks are.

    Here our local park has 'front of the line' perks for Season Pass holders on certain days... but they are limited in #. Don't get there in the first hour or so.. and they're gone.

    In a Disneyland or WDW scenario - where things are generally crowded - they will run out. If you give out so many you don't run out - the system falls down on itself just like Fastpass does. If you give out too many, your impact on waits will be greater, for both stand-by AND paid people.

    The best thing to do is really make the price variable based on the expected crowd levels. This would match the price to the actual demand and supply. On low crowd days, you make the device cheap.. on high crowd days.. you make it more expensive. However, customers do not react to variable pricing all that well.
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  2. #92

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    There is no enforceable return time on the SFOG device I used. You can come back as late as you want.
    There wasn't at SFDK either.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Well certainly that is going to be a variable based on how crowded the parks are.
    The park was quite crowded. There seemed to be around 300-400 Flashpasses available for rental. And you can put up to 6 people on each Flashpass. That would be a possible 2400 people on the system in any one day.

    Not sure what their daily attendance is, but can it be more than 10,000??? I doubt it.


  3. #93

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The best thing to do is really make the price variable based on the expected crowd levels. This would match the price to the actual demand and supply. On low crowd days, you make the device cheap.. on high crowd days.. you make it more expensive. However, customers do not react to variable pricing all that well.
    Which is why tying fp to hotel stays just may be the way to go.....hotels already are adjusting prices based on expected attendence.

    Variable pricing built right in
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  4. #94

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    There is no enforceable return time on the SFOG device I used. You can come back as late as you want.
    But you can't come back earlier right? So they still have people enforcing return times. I was incorrect in my assumption on the time yet. But the difference is still simply managing the impact based on the # of users. I was more trying to point out the stupidity of the idea CMs can't check return times if Disney were to enforce them.

    They've taken a slightly different angle in that by simply by limiting the # of users, they can limit the impact on the lines.

    It's really no different then VIP access at Disneyland. If you let Kobe into the attraction without waiting in the line.. he's not going to have a significant impact on the attraction's wait. But you can't have 10,000 Kobe's in the park.

    But just as we hear people complain about FP here... goto other sites and hear people complain about Flashpass

    It doesn't change the 'two places at one time' argument against FP, it doesn't change the availability arguments, it doesn't change the 'Its not fair to the idiots who can't read' arguments. The biggest difference in models is simply the distribution model. Flashpass assumes the lines will self-adjust as wait times grow - Disney chooses a math model but then doesn't follow it and that's how it fails to limit it's impact.

    I'd say the other significant change is the ability to 'cap' the number of Flashpass returns on the fly. Disney's system because it looks so far ahead in the future, opens the potential for changing circumstances to cause problems. The flashpass system only looks far enough ahead as the current wait time and since the system prevents you from 'stacking'.. people will drop from the queue rather then create a surge later like what happens with FP.

    So I can certainly see advantages to Flashpass.. in that it's shorter look-ahead window negates the need to allow stacking, and makes the system a bit more dynamic to changing conditions. Of course the wireless vs fixed terminals is a huge advantage.

    The biggest gain for users I think would be the closer return times vs. the potential for 3-4 hrs away that can be common with FP.

    Plus for new construction, I bet the dongles save you money in the long haul vs. all the FP machines that must be installed, manned, and maintained.

    Overall I think the technology differences make Flashpass a more dynamic system - but I don't think it solves the 'complaints' we hear about FP. It would just add more... flashpass users are more efficient at tickets -> uses.. they aren't encombured by having to move around the park.. they are 'buying' their way to the front, etc.

    I could certainly see this being the easiest value add to put on their resorts. Imagine if an ENH-FP system were built into deluxe room pricing vs. moderate, etc. But I still find it hard to swallow to be told to more then DOUBLE your admission price.

    Even at the greatest discount... FP is close to $40/person. That's more then most people are paying per day to be in the parks on MYW tickets. Pricing to buy on demand would be a huge challenge for Disney.

    So overall... I think Flashpass-type system would be even BETTER for Disney - but I don't see it being better for guests overall. Which is what everyone complains about with FP.
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  5. #95

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    ^ Disney DOES inforce the return time on the "Start" end, just not the "End" end.


  6. #96

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    ^ Disney DOES inforce the return time on the "Start" end, just not the "End" end.
    I know - but somehow people think it would be impossibly hard for CMs to check the return window end time too. Yes, this 'logic' has been used in past discussions to say why Disney can't enforce the return window.. it would be too difficult on CMs! Oh the horror...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  7. #97

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Honestly, Disney's policy has been to ignore the end time that for them to change it now would be a PR nightmare.


  8. #98

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    Honestly, Disney's policy has been to ignore the end time that for them to change it now would be a PR nightmare.
    Yes - but that's not the justification given in the past. It's the insanity that it would be too hard on the CM

    I think any PR issues would work there way out over time. It's no different then Disney actually enforcing the resort mugs, parking, or other things. They'll introduce some small change that enables them to get what they want and the cry babies will be handled off to the side.

    It's not possible to offer any system such as these that can not significantly alter the line's behavior unless you control WHEN guests return. The only way to do that is simply limit the # of guests who can do it (VIPs).

    And the core of every FP sucks argument is the impact on lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  9. #99

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    They would also have to modify the FP tickets since the ticket specifically states you can't come earlier than your listed time, but doesn't say anything about showing up late.

  10. #100

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by socalkdg View Post
    They would also have to modify the FP tickets since the ticket specifically states you can't come earlier than your listed time, but doesn't say anything about showing up late.
    FP tickets states 'between X and Y' that means there is a end time. But really, what is printed on the tickets is pretty much the least of their limitations if they wanted to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  11. #101

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    DISNEY SHOULD NOT DO AWAY WITH THEIR FASTPASSES. Personally, I think the Disney Fastpass is the best system out there! Big families can not afford an extra $30-$60 per person when they are already paying $100 for a single day park hopper. Disney Fastpass is great and should be altered. Everybody should be treated the same. Disney should do Fastpass for free or do away with it all together. It's not right that people get to pay to be ahead of everyone else, it's just ridiculously stupid
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  12. #102

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    I almost alway show up with a fastpass five minutes early especially if my time is 2:40 and someone else in my group has a time of 2:45. CM's don't really mind if your five to ten minutes early and will usually let you through
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  13. #103

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImagineer View Post
    I almost alway show up with a fastpass five minutes early especially if my time is 2:40 and someone else in my group has a time of 2:45. CM's don't really mind if your five to ten minutes early and will usually let you through
    They don't and shouldn't. If that happened to you, then you were lucky, but 99,9% of CMs won't let you do this. Hence the mob of people waiting outside the FP lne (at WDW)
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  14. #104

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    Re: 8/4: Flash vs Fast; Pass that is...

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImagineer View Post
    DISNEY SHOULD NOT DO AWAY WITH THEIR FASTPASSES. Personally, I think the Disney Fastpass is the best system out there! Big families can not afford an extra $30-$60 per person when they are already paying $100 for a single day park hopper. Disney Fastpass is great and should be altered. Everybody should be treated the same. Disney should do Fastpass for free or do away with it all together. It's not right that people get to pay to be ahead of everyone else, it's just ridiculously stupid
    The problem with it being free is it gets used(by those in the know) to a degree that is harmful to those who do not wish to use it....whether they know it or not.

    If the Onceler had to pay for every tree he chopped down he wouldn't have chopped them all down........dump fp and bring back A-E tickets I say.

    Besides, fp's can already be purchased(sort of)...they cost $10 each for AP's and $12.50 each for everyone else.
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