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Thread: 12/20: Clubbed

  1. #31

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Keep in mind... for new folks... this IS THE ONLY WAY you can be a member and have access to the mystery known as Club 33. Oh.. and with them limiting my comp passes.. don't even think about asking a member you don't know for a reservation! LOL

    We crunched the hard numbers.... once you removed the VIP tours (list price), 4 Platinum Passses, etc... the Carthay access came out to about $1900. So internally, Disney feels that is all it is worth.

  2. #32

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy View Post
    It will be very difficult for new members gaming the system to reap any financial gain once those 50 free passes are gone, and their 'guests' have to purchase their own tickets at the gate, or use their own APs for admission. Truth is, a significant percentage of individuals on the wait list probably planned to join and pay for it by breaking the rules and selling access to the club, which many current members are already doing. They could have achieved this at the Gold level for $3400 each year with unlimited comp passes. But now at $10,000 each year and only 50 comp passes, that little trick simply will not work.
    What are you talking about? What is your source that "many current members" are selling access to Club 33? Do that just once and you're out. No second chance. Doing that really insults the dignity of being a Club 33 member. While dishonesty and breaking the rules happens everywhere, Club 33 members aren't some rogue bunch of thieves bent on stealing from the very club they belong to and take pride in. Come on now.

    And for those who have abused their reservations privileges, the club rules say nothing about this. Members heretofore have never been encouraged to make fewer reservations. I've often wished members wouldn't pack the club so much with guests such that there wasn't room for a walk-in member, but it just was never dealt with. And the way it's being dealt with now is a joke. You don't cap the member when the member is present. Ridiculous. Their solution is to throw out the baby with the bath water.

  3. #33

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    In BlueSky's defense.. it is Disney that is saying the comp passes are being abused.. that is the excuse being offered up when we asked "why is this even happening"?

    It would seem to me that the members have been doing a great job keeping the staff employed by filling up the dining room. I agree, I wish it weren't packed to the gills with guests... but have taken that as a necessary evil to ensure they stay staffed and available. Rarely has there been a time when I have called and I couldn't get a reservation for me or my guests. And in cases where I was the diner? There has always been an accommodation.

  4. #34

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    BlueSky - Under the current system (other than corporate memberships) you receive one card for the "member" and a spouse card.
    Thanks, disneynut, for clarifying that. (BTW... just out of curiosity, what constitutes a 'spouse'? What about members, gay or straight, with lifelong partners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    The miscalculation on the part of Disney (Club 33) is they see the giant waiting list as a source of revenue. The problem with their calculation is that the waiting list was created in times when the club was lower priced and offered more benefits. Many of those on the list were not in a financial position to pay for membership if it were to be offered at that moment in time. They assumed 7-10 years later when their name came up they would be able to afford it.
    Couldn't agree more. Plus, there's the whole situation with selling access under the table to help pay for the membership.

    I've actually met DL fans standing in line at merch events who bragged about being on the wait list for years, who were only a year or two away from joining, who were planning to pay for their membership by selling access. These were the same fans who went to special merch events and bought as much as they could to sell on eBay for a hefty markup, to help pay for their trip to DL for the event. Surely Disney must know that their C33 wait list is full of folks like this, which might help to explain these changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    Please, let's avoid another financial argument. I am not knocking anyone who can or can't afford (or those who simply think this is a crazy expenditure) the fees. I am simply stating facts. I know of plenty of people on that list who don't have $10,000 much less $40,000. It took Disney by committee to understand that nobody would want to pay for a private club in DCA when all they had to do was put 10 of us in a room for 30 minutes to debate the merits of a new club. Disney will quickly learn that the giant waiting list will be of no great value once the new rates and policies are in force. For those who argue that I am wrong, I will still be here a year from now to stand by my statements.
    Which is why I contend that this is one of Disney's motivations for upping the membership dues so high. They want to clear out the wait list. Problem is, they think they'll get enough folks on that list to pony up the higher fees to make it worth the effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    There will be a few who accept the new level of membership, but not in the numbers they envision. The new money will be well offset by the money from the current membership walking out the door.
    Yup.
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  5. #35

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy View Post
    I strongly suspect, mikimous, that P&R upper level management doesn't really care about upsetting the current client base, because they've convinced themselves that potential members are sitting on the wait list who will gladly sign up at $10K each year to replace them, should the existing members bail out. That seems to be the mindset dipped in greed at TWDC now.


    And the plot thickens. Sounds like yet another justification P&R will use to bring in an outside vendor to run the place.

    ---------- Post added 12-20-2011 at 12:58 PM ----------


    Any idea what Platinum members will be offered? Same number? Or possibly more?

    For $10K per year, 4 Platinum APs seems rather wimpy.
    This IS what Platinum members are being offered.

    So, to net it out:
    $3600 gets you into Club 33
    $6400 more also gets you into C1902, 5 VIP tours and 4 APs



  6. #36

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Don't bank on the higher rates sorting that all out. All the higher rates means is that they will have to buy even more stuff and sell it on e-bay. The problem is, just like every other "limited edition" of Disney's... the more of this stuff that gets put into circulation, the less valuable it becomes. Dare I say, a Club 33 embossed napkin taken from the stack in the bathroom... may actually come down to its actual worth... the paper it is printed on! LOL

  7. #37

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy View Post
    Thanks, disneynut, for clarifying that. (BTW... just out of curiosity, what constitutes a 'spouse'? What about members, gay or straight, with lifelong partners?
    I am not currently gay (although my wife is making me consider it as a better option) but I do believe you can "name" your spouse or partner without any argument. I can search to see if there is specific language about this, but I believe they take your word for who your significant other is. The majority of the staff in Club 33 is gay and I would not presume there would be any difficulty with this. Simply put, I am married and miserable and I think everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, deserves the same.

  8. #38

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Spouse benefit is left open to interpretation. However, the club does not enforce any sort of proof of marriage or otherwise. Believe it or not... Club33 has been fairly reasonable and flexible in the past. Obviously, that is all changing and the letter of the agreement will most likely have to be redrafted by Disney legal.

  9. #39

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicKingdomBoy View Post
    What are you talking about? What is your source that "many current members" are selling access to Club 33? Do that just once and you're out. No second chance. Doing that really insults the dignity of being a Club 33 member. While dishonesty and breaking the rules happens everywhere, Club 33 members aren't some rogue bunch of thieves bent on stealing from the very club they belong to and take pride in. Come on now.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikimous View Post
    In BlueSky's defense.. it is Disney that is saying the comp passes are being abused.. that is the excuse being offered up when we asked "why is this even happening"?
    Thanks, mikimous.

    MagicKingdomBoy... anyone who thinks there isn't a significant portion of C33 members selling access under the table is kidding themselves. Sure, those members might not do it all the time. But it is done by many members, if only on occasion.

    I can think of three Disney acquaintances off the top of my head right now who know members who've done it. I could dine at C33 this way if I desired, with just a phone call or two. But to do this is unbelievably expensive for what it offers. I would have to pay the member for my park admission, my dinner/drinks, and the dinner/drinks for the member's friend accompanying me. Since I've already been to C33, I have no interest in going under these circumstances. But there are those diehard DL fans who are willing to pay through the nose like that, just for the privilege of being inside Club 33. I've met them at special events.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicKingdomBoy View Post
    I've often wished members wouldn't pack the club so much with guests such that there wasn't room for a walk-in member, but it just was never dealt with. And the way it's being dealt with now is a joke. You don't cap the member when the member is present. Ridiculous. Their solution is to throw out the baby with the bath water.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikimous View Post
    It would seem to me that the members have been doing a great job keeping the staff employed by filling up the dining room. I agree, I wish it weren't packed to the gills with guests... but have taken that as a necessary evil to ensure they stay staffed and available. Rarely has there been a time when I have called and I couldn't get a reservation for me or my guests. And in cases where I was the diner? There has always been an accommodation.
    Unfortunately, this is how Disney rolls now. The mindset of greed is running at full steam.

    Look at what is happening at WDW with the dining program. What about guests booking concierge at rack rate at a deluxe WDW resort just weeks before their trip? Disney's golden target audience, spending-wise. I've done this several times in the past, because my schedule never allows me to book many months in advance. But even as a concierge guest at a deluxe, good luck getting last-minute reservations for your favorite WDW restaurants now. They're booked out way in advance. Disney used to hold back some same-day reservations for concierge guests, but they've either stopped that practice or reduced the number to such a low amount that they disappear quickly. Combine this with the cuts in other perks, and the value for the added expense of staying in a concierge room just isn't there anymore.

    Truthfully, I don't understand why C33 is still appealing. I've heard nothing but complaints regarding food quality sliding and the place being fully packed all the time, which I wouldn't find conducive to a relaxing meal. (I was fortunate to dine my one and only time in the Trophy Room, which was quiet and enjoyable.) For what it costs to be a member now and to dine there, I simply don't see the value. I'd rather spend the money someplace else.

    ---------- Post added 12-20-2011 at 02:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vnormth View Post
    This IS what Platinum members are being offered.

    So, to net it out:
    $3600 gets you into Club 33
    $6400 more also gets you into C1902, 5 VIP tours and 4 APs


    OK, that makes more sense for the price difference.

    I still think it's a ripoff, but not as much as what I first thought. Thanks for the info.

    ---------- Post added 12-20-2011 at 02:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mikimous View Post
    Dare I say, a Club 33 embossed napkin taken from the stack in the bathroom... may actually come down to its actual worth... the paper it is printed on! LOL
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  10. #40

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    You are right on those points (even the WDW ones). As far as Club membership... I can tell you that recent years we too have been on the fence about keeping it up too. With these fresh changes, it makes us take further pause. The problem with walking away is that it'll definitely be it for us. Can't come back in two years if things actually improved... especially with the new buy in costs.

  11. #41

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by mikimous View Post
    Deal being offered to us golds... 4 Platinums aps plus 5 VIP tours a year. whoopee.
    But, that's to upgrade to Platinum not stay gold, correct?
    Mike



  12. #42

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Correct. Stay gold and you don't get any APs. Your member card is your AP and your spouse gets one too. No +1 guest benefit any more.

  13. #43

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by mikimous View Post
    You are right on those points (even the WDW ones). As far as Club membership... I can tell you that recent years we too have been on the fence about keeping it up too. With these fresh changes, it makes us take further pause. The problem with walking away is that it'll definitely be it for us. Can't come back in two years if things actually improved... especially with the new buy in costs.
    Then it sounds as if keeping it for one more year makes sense, if you think potential improvements will outweigh the higher dues and reduction in perks.
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  14. #44

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Golds won't walk out because of this. What will be the straw is when Platinums start increasing, effectively edging Golds out of the priority. That will be what tips the scales for many to either upgrade or walk away.

    Concerns all around is that this is a very slippery slope and that we are only seeing the beginning of how this regime plans on maximizing revenue for the department.

  15. #45

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    Re: 12/20: Clubbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    I don't think you are understanding the argument
    You're failing to seperate your claims - from your conclusions. You stated

    An audit of the records can't reveal that members were handing out hundreds of comp passes as members are not given any comp passes to distribute.
    You as it's based on reservations, you can plainly audit how many passes are distributed.

    You go onto say

    The article makes it seem as though members are handing out tickets and that the guests use these tickets without any benefit to Disney and/or Club 33
    The article makes no such conclusion. The article highlights what Al reports as an imbalance and abuse - it doesn't make assertions about 'no benefit' or not to Disney or Club 33. It only states that there were members that were using their membership far more often for other people then themselves dining in the club. You took it another step - that's your inference, not what the article states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    In addition, what is this disturbing concern about who uses the ticket? How or why would they even care if the reservations are made for family members, hairdressers or business associates? Now I should be worried that Club 33 is quizing my guests on their relationship to the member?
    As with many things... there is the core intent, and fringe abuses. One shouldn't cry the sky is falling when someone tries to single out the fringe.
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