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  1. #16

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Phil Holmes doesn't live in Orlando? What exactly is it, that he does there? Lunacy

  2. #17

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    when LEDs are out.. its probably not the 'light burnt out' but a wiring or socket issue.

    LEDs are incredibly reliable.. but when you work them into form-factors meant to work like a traditional incandesent, in outdoor sockets.. you have the same type of physical wiring/contact issues you could have before.

    Look at the funwheel in DCA for instance... look at how many problems they had to sort out with that with the wiring.

    Point being.. 'burnt out' isn't your only concern with either LEDs or incandescent. Especially with things recently rebuilt....
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  3. #18

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    I read Kevin's articles often, generally find that you are over critical and harp back to a day that never really existed but was made up in a Disney fantasy. I can speak from experience since I worked in Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and then opened the Studios. All told, I worked for Disney for almost 9 years in the Disney glory days in the mid 80's-mid 90's.

    I worked at both the carousel and the tea party and can tell you that back in those days, gasp, light bulbs would burn out and wouldn't be replaced for weeks and months. Granted this was less common on the Carousel since all the brass was polished nightly and maintance could get to those lights more easily. The tea party, however, had all those lights on top of the roof (you do realize the roof wasn't there when the park opened) and maintenance couldn't easily get to the lights.

    I also drove subs for 3 years and yes, sometimes those red and white cabin lights would be burned out for several days (they got replaced more often since it was a safety issue), but the green running lights (the eye balls) could be burned out for months.

    Often the lights about the MK Ferry dock would be burned out for years since they couldn't bring the lift onto the dock. The lights seemed to get replaced when they replaced the canvas-type roof.

    I can tell you stories of when Mickey's BirthdayLand theaters flooded from the rain, or how the paint chipped off the facades within days of opening from the guest touching.

    I can share with you stories of how the running lights on the skyway cabins would be burned out for months, or how dirty the walls on the speedramp at Space Mountain would get from people sitting on the hand rails. Or that the nose cones of the trains would be craked for years.

    I can share with you stories of the Small World boats with water lines on them so deep and long, they looked black, or Wendy on the plank in Peter Pan who was shaking so badly she looked like she had a siezure.

    I can tell you within days of opening the Studio the red neon lights on top of the columns at SuperStar TV would burn out and there was black wire in their place to complete the electrical circuit, or how many of the SoundStations at Monster Sound show had broken headsets for weeks at a time.

    Tonight I even saw a picture of a fellow cast member in 1979 when, gasp, the grass in between the Liberty Square bridge, moat and castle wasn't as green as it should have been and had some sun burns through it.

    My point: Even when the parks were brand new these things happened. Even in the days of the "Old Disney Guard" these things happened. The Magic Kingdom is more than 40 years old now, things age and there is a lot of maintance that goes on in the park every single night.

    Unfortunately though, Disney built a fantasy that everything is fixed every night. That was never true back in the day, nor is it true today.

    On the other hand, I would never have seen a finale so broken as it was in your video. Back in those days, the lead would have been called, and done a ride through, called the supervisor and the attraction would have been taken 101.

    I'm not saying the bar shouldn't be raised but it is important to know that these little issues have always been around and I don't think by themselves show a decrease in show quality.

    Just my two cents...

  4. #19

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    Just don't call me Shirley!
    Well that was a rather plane joke.

  5. #20

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by blowfishies View Post
    I read Kevin's articles often, generally find that you are over critical and harp back to a day that never really existed but was made up in a Disney fantasy. .... [snip]

    My point: Even when the parks were brand new these things happened. Even in the days of the "Old Disney Guard" these things happened. The Magic Kingdom is more than 40 years old now, things age and there is a lot of maintance that goes on in the park every single night.
    I'm SUPER glad you wrote this post. It's helping me realize something that should have been obvious all along, but I'm only now grasping it: Orlando's parks never had the culture that Disneyland did. The standards I hold them to might look like fantasy to an Orlando person, but they were not fantasy at Disneyland in the 80s and 90s.

    I can tell you that the litany of problems you listed in the 80s and 90s (when I also worked at Disneyland) would definitely not have been a long-term issue at Disneyland. In the Anaheim park, there was essentially panic from the supervisor/manager, the Lead, and the frontline Cast Member when things were burned out or broken. They were called in and given Priority-1 (to be fixed overnight), and heads would roll in maintenance if the next day the thing wasn't fixed.

    Obviously mechanical things break. That's not the point. The point is how long it takes to fix them. From your post, it sounds like what I've witnessed since 2002 (when WDW became my local park) are a slide into mediocrity from a position that was high... but NOT as high as Disneyland's was. That's very interesting.

    Do I have a more-critical eye than most visitors? Definitely. My position all along has been, however, that the billion small details add up, and Disney parks NEED folks working there who are 'overly critical' about the details. Otherwise, guess what? The details stop adding up.

    And standards get so lax that you get experiences like the finale on Splash (which is working again as of yesterday, apparently).
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  6. #21

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by [Link to unauthorized site removed
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    BUT a part of me wonders if these "declines" are more noticeable to us (as Disney fans) and less to the typical park goer. We visit these parks on a regular basis and know what's suppose to work and look. The average person may not know or be that observant.
    I dunno. I can remember being a first-time visitor myself, as a kid in the 1980's. I really had no idea what to expect, except some rides and Mickey Mouse. And yet, right away I was astounded at how clean and pristine everything looked in a park that was a decade and a half old. Even my father, who rarely had a good word to say about anything, said, "They must have a huge gang of janitors come in at night to keep it looking like this."

  7. #22

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    While I would like Disney to uphold the same standards as DL used to have, a few lightbulbs out doesn't at all impact the enjoyment of my vacation. In short, they should be doing better, but this is something that I just don't notice during my visits.

    The Splash thing, however, is a whole nuther thing. This is different from Everest's yeti, which, while cool, isn't really that big of a part of the ride experience. But to have an entire grand finale scene not working is completely unacceptable. No matter what the reason, no matter how hard it may be to find a part, this attraction should be completely shut down, even for months, until this part of the show is repaired. Very very bad show, Disney!

    And on the beard thing, as a bearded guy I don't care if a CM has a hairy face or not, as long as he's still "neat and pretty" (sorry, that sounded gay, didn't it?). Maybe back in the 50's and 60's a beard connoted a slovenly individual. But these days, as long as it's not a Grizzley Adams thing, who cares?

  8. #23

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    The video of the end of 'Splash Mountain' reminds me of this link to a 'Small World' knockoff in China (I believe also posted by Kevin):
    Frightening Scary Zombie Chinese Knock Off it's a Small World Dark Ride Suzhou Amusement Land China - YouTube

    (Zip to 2:00 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.) I had laughed at the 'Small World' video thinking it demonstrates all things not Disney, but now I worry it's prophetic and warns of things to come. Yikes!

    Thanks for posting another great article, Mr. Yee (not Shirley)

  9. #24

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    While I would like Disney to uphold the same standards as DL used to have, a few lightbulbs out doesn't at all impact the enjoyment of my vacation. In short, they should be doing better, but this is something that I just don't notice during my visits.

    The Splash thing, however, is a whole nuther thing. This is different from Everest's yeti, which, while cool, isn't really that big of a part of the ride experience. But to have an entire grand finale scene not working is completely unacceptable. No matter what the reason, no matter how hard it may be to find a part, this attraction should be completely shut down, even for months, until this part of the show is repaired. Very very bad show, Disney!

    And on the beard thing, as a bearded guy I don't care if a CM has a hairy face or not, as long as he's still "neat and pretty" (sorry, that sounded gay, didn't it?). Maybe back in the 50's and 60's a beard connoted a slovenly individual. But these days, as long as it's not a Grizzley Adams thing, who cares?
    I'm trying to figure out here what exactly is wrong with, as you put it, "sounding gay".
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  10. #25

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Only that I didn't mean to sound gay.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that . . . . .

  11. #26

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by kindagoofy View Post
    The video of the end of 'Splash Mountain' reminds me of this link to a 'Small World' knockoff in China (I believe also posted by Kevin):
    Frightening Scary Zombie Chinese Knock Off it's a Small World Dark Ride Suzhou Amusement Land China - YouTube

    (Zip to 2:00 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.) I had laughed at the 'Small World' video thinking it demonstrates all things not Disney, but now I worry it's prophetic and warns of things to come. Yikes!

    Thanks for posting another great article, Mr. Yee (not Shirley)
    Oh god that's terrifying.

  12. #27

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    when LEDs are out.. its probably not the 'light burnt out' but a wiring or socket issue.

    LEDs are incredibly reliable.. but when you work them into form-factors meant to work like a traditional incandesent, in outdoor sockets.. you have the same type of physical wiring/contact issues you could have before.

    Look at the funwheel in DCA for instance... look at how many problems they had to sort out with that with the wiring.

    Point being.. 'burnt out' isn't your only concern with either LEDs or incandescent. Especially with things recently rebuilt....
    The problem with the fun wheel's LEDs was the complex computer controlled lighting system which needed to be wired, believe me, it wasn't a simple parallel wiring job!

    Anyway, even in an LED retrofit, the LED bulbs usually fit the socket correctly as they are made to specs, the issue is cramming LEDs into an incandescent bulb shape (perhaps you were alluding to this), and lack of good ventilation. A lot of bright LEDs above 15 watt equivalents use metal fins and such for heat dissipation, which while smaller than incandescents is a real issue. So LEDs can, and do, "burn out". Given that the lights on the Teacups aren't a computer driven show effect . . . I would wager that the issue is LED bulb quality, not socket fit issues.

    Some of the early LED bulbs used for areas like Paradise Pier fell apart as the glue holding the glass globe to the socket and circuitry fell off!

    Not all LEDs meet their advertised lifespan, especially the early generation ones, like the teacups lights which are different from anything I've used as they have a couple LEDs glued together in a transparent bulb to replicate the incandescent bulb more closely. When I first saw a photo of the new bulbs on Miceage, I figured that they would have burn out issues due to the close physical proximity of the LEDs.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 01-26-2012 at 11:49 PM.

  13. #28

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The problem with the fun wheel's LEDs was the complex computer controlled lighting system which needed to be wired, believe me, it wasn't a simple parallel wiring job!
    ?? It was wired when it in went in. The problem I was referring to was its unreliability where major sections would repeatedly fail. It wasn't because the LEDs were 'burnt out' it was due to the wiring and control systems having environmental issues. That was my point, just because the light is out, doesn't mean the only reason is the light itself. The light still relies on it's fixture and wiring as well.
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  14. #29

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    I'm SUPER glad you wrote this post. It's helping me realize something that should have been obvious all along, but I'm only now grasping it: Orlando's parks never had the culture that Disneyland did. The standards I hold them to might look like fantasy to an Orlando person, but they were not fantasy at Disneyland in the 80s and 90s.
    No, Kevin. What Blowfishies just said applies to DL as well. There have been stories of DL having its shares of "Decling by Degrees" throughout its history, even before Paul Pressler's reign of terror.

    I think you need to adjust your attitude, Kevin. You're way too negative for your own good, IMO.

  15. #30

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    Re: 1/24: WorldView - The Disney Look

    ^I have to agree I saw some footage/pictures from the 50s. Maintenance was far from perfect. However Splash Mountain being in such a poor state should be closed off for now.

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