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  1. #31

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    I'd guess goofy donald is reacting more to the comments on this thread than your comments, Kevin. You always do a great job at being balanced, finding the good as well as the bad.

  2. #32

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee View Post
    Sorry, but I had to ask: did you READ the article? It starts with a salivating look at Sorcerers.
    no im not talking about you at all Kevin, i greatly appreciate your work and think you do a great job of telling both sides of the story on most occasions. my comments were meant to be directed at the forum as a whole which usually leans to the pessimistic stories and opinions as opposed to the optimistic.

  3. #33

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    It's possible to notice both the good and the bad. Heck, I can't imagine NOT noticing both.

    I'm gonna paraphrase one of Kevin's earlier articles here: the reason the bad gets discussed more is because the good stuff is assumed. It's taken as read. If there wasn't tons of good stuff, we wouldn't care about the parks and we wouldn't be here talking about them in the first place.

  4. #34

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    It's possible to notice both the good and the bad. Heck, I can't imagine NOT noticing both.

    I'm gonna paraphrase one of Kevin's earlier articles here: the reason the bad gets discussed more is because the good stuff is assumed. It's taken as read. If there wasn't tons of good stuff, we wouldn't care about the parks and we wouldn't be here talking about them in the first place.
    fair enough, but this only serves to highlight negative events for new people and in turn this skews their perspective of what the parks are really like today. that's what this point i brought up is about, this over dramatization of the parks conditions to a certain degree is preventing the ability to inform others responsibly. thats why there should be a better balance between the good and the bad in my opinion. its one of the reasons this forum exists, to inform others.

  5. #35

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by KENfromOC View Post
    But now let’s reverse things. The last time we went to WDW was in summer of 2005 (with my step-daughter, but way before my now 5-year was around). We saw Everest being built and it would certainly be high on my list of “must-do” attractions. So how would I take it if I went to DAK and had the CM’s tell me – “Yes the ride is working perfectly, but be closed it because the Yeti isn’t moving.” – Gee thanks, so maybe in another 7 years when I make it back I’ll finally get to ride it!
    I get where you're coming from, but as someone who goes to Disneyland and experiences parks that are regularly maintained but having NEVER gone over to WDW, I have absolutely no incentive to even make the trip if that glorious Yeti isn't working.

    But you can bet that at this very moment, I'm trying to figure out a way to get over to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

    It's prioritizing. When that Yeti is fixed and the resort as a whole has gotten some real TLC, I'll spend the money to see WDW. This Fantasyland expansion isn't enough to draw me (or even the addition of an Avatar land). I'm not going to blow my money on a trip that I know will disappoint me. I'd rather spend that money elsewhere. The fact that this AA is still not working is a HUGE problem and it's shameful on Disney's part that they haven't done anything about it after all this time.

    Past DLR, I've visited Disneyland Paris Resort...and after that experience, I know that I don't want to break my heart by going to a Disney park that is not taken care of. It literally breaks my heart and ruins my experience. Even if I didn't have DLR to compare the other parks to, I'd still feel like my experience had been cheapened. I choose Disney over other parks and entertainment because generally I'm going to see something spectacular and find myself in another world. But if I see everything broken, paint worn, etc., I don't get transported into that world and the sad reality will hit that, just like everywhere else, corporate selfishness and greed got the better of this magical place and it will become cheapened just like everything else.

    Maybe I'm not the average tourist in that I can verbalize all of these things, but like Kevin says - guests still notice that something's not right. The public isn't oblivious.
    Last edited by pineapplewhipaddict; 02-19-2012 at 08:33 PM.

  6. #36

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I get where you're coming from, but as someone who goes to Disneyland and experiences parks that are regularly maintained but having NEVER gone over to WDW, I have absolutely no incentive to even make the trip if that glorious Yeti isn't working.

    But you can bet that at this very moment, I'm trying to figure out a way to get over to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

    It's prioritizing. When that Yeti is fixed and the resort as a whole has gotten some real TLC, I'll spend the money to see WDW. This Fantasyland expansion isn't enough to draw me (or even the addition of an Avatar land). I'm not going to blow my money on a trip that I know will disappoint me. I'd rather spend that money elsewhere. The fact that this AA is still not working is a HUGE problem and it's shameful on Disney's part that they haven't done anything about it after all this time.

    Past DLR, I've visited Disneyland Paris Resort...and after that experience, I know that I don't want to break my heart by going to a Disney park that is not taken care of. It literally breaks my heart and ruins my experience. Even if I didn't have DLR to compare the other parks to, I'd still feel like my experience had been cheapened. I choose Disney over other parks and entertainment because generally I'm going to see something spectacular and find myself in another world. But if I see everything broken, paint worn, etc., I don't get transported into that world and the sad reality will hit that, just like everywhere else, corporate selfishness and greed got the better of this magical place and it will become cheapened just like everything else.

    Maybe I'm not the average tourist in that I can verbalize all of these things, but like Kevin says - guests still notice that something's not right. The public isn't oblivious.
    see but your making this judgement from other peoples opinions. That's why I think its a little shortsighted of you to make comments like those above without ever experiencing WDW. if you have never seen the parks yourself how can you possibly make an informed opinion on their condition. you have to remember the majority of negative comments are coming from people who experience the parks on a bi-weekly basis in some cases and will easily point out any flaw that may occur because they've seen some attractions upwards of 50 times a year. As a Disneyland vet you may have some insight into the cloned attractions however from my personal experiences in both resorts they are different in a variety of ways, including and especially the same and similar attractions. that's why i really recommend you actually go to Disney world and experience it for your self, I was there just a short month ago now and it was not at all as you described. little to nothing was noticeably broken, paint was not worn, and if something was wrong you had to go purposefully looking for it. sure there were tarps some places but those are signs of progress not detriment. On the east coast in fact quite a few of the similar attractions are the better versions of said attractions and because WDW has far more space then DL it has amazing and much more extensive thematic elements, so if being in the magic is what your looking for then you actually really should make a trip to Orlando, and not just for potter. again take things you see here with the same grain of salt I'm sure you need to take when seeing some things on the Disneyland board. outside of a few instances (splash and yeti not Everest itself) maintenance/cleanliness is fairly equal between both locals. So to conclude I think you really should come to WDW and make your own opinions, I guarantee you wont be blowing your money.

  7. #37

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    "Guarantee"? Now, the thread got a lot more interesting!
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #38

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Haha sediment!


    goofy donald, if you go over to the Disneyland Paris forum, everyone over there insists that their parks are not as bad as some make it out to be and that it's still worth it. Based on that, and the fact that I really wanted to see Phantom Manor, I went, going with an open mind and a great amount of excitement. My family even made us several hours late, and usually I would have been upset, but because I was so excited I didn't let it bring me down and entered the parks with the utmost enthusiasm. Being there for myself, I unfortunately saw a lot of the bad that is mentioned over there (plus the stench that no one had talked about which made me sick all day). I went regardless of the negative things that had been said about it because there were still people that said, "No, really, it's not as bad as they make it out to be!" But it was (in my eyes), and it was a heartbreaking experience. Not everything was bad...Crush's Coaster was amazing, and I could have stared at the Maleficent dragon for hours, but sadly those were the only things that made a good impression on me.

    I don't think that WDW is as bad-off as Disneyland Paris, but don't you see my trepidation? I always believe in forming opinions for oneself, but it becomes more complicated when you don't have a lot of money and you know the subject in question is going to get expensive.

  9. #39

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    This is going to sound crazy to many of you reading this thread, but I actually saw less broken at Paris than at WDW in my visit last November. I see DLP only once every 5 years, so "fresh eyes" grain of salt needs to be remembered, but on the whole Paris was OK.

    The paint was the worst part. A few pirates (OK, the swinging pirate mostly) were broken, but they were fixed the next day. The up-chain thing, too. I missed the final Phantom all week long

    But their Thunder puts the Orlando one to shame. Upkeep otherwise was pretty good for a "once in five years visitor".

    Now, does this mean I am overly critical ONLY with the Orlando parks? I guess it could mean that, especially if there's anyone here who visits Orlando once every five years AND visits Paris with the same frequency (not more, not less) AND if that person thinks the two parks are on par.

    But I think to a limited extent it doesn't matter what the infrequent visitor sees. What matters is what they FEEL. If the parks are magical, then enough details are still there. If the magic is lacking, then the frequent visitors are justified in sounding the alarm. As my signature file says, I think we ought to be barking when things are suspicious, rather than waiting until they are dangerous.
    Kevin Yee
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    I am the author of several Disney books:
    Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
    Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
    Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
    Mouse Trap
    Tokyo Disney Made Easy
    101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
    Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

    “The press [should be] a watchdog. Not an attack dog. Not a lapdog. A watchdog. Now, a watchdog can't be right all the time. He doesn't bark only when he sees or smells something that's dangerous. A good watchdog barks at things that are suspicious.” – Dan Rather

  10. #40

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I always believe in forming opinions for oneself, but it becomes more complicated when you don't have a lot of money and you know the subject in question is going to get expensive.
    I'll tell you a story from years back. I grew up in SoCal, but moved away and hadn't been back to DL in some years. Back in the USENET days, Al (and others) used to really lay it on about how bad DL was - bad trash, bad paint, bad CMs, etc. I was kind of hesitant to go back, fearing that all that would be true and I'd be disappointed. But on my next visit I walked under the train tracks, and there was Main Street, and there was the castle at the end of it, and the music was playing and the flag was flying - in short, it was just as amazing and memorable and magic as I'd remembered it. Later in the day I specifically looked for some of the things that had been reported, and yes, I found most of them. But from the viewpoint of an infrequent visitor, the problems were insignificant compared to my great joy at being back in a place that I loved.

    In summary, don't believe everything you read. Or even if you do, don't let it sway you from going and seeing for yourself.

  11. #41

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    Re: 2/14: The Rizzo Factor

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    Haha sediment!


    goofy donald, if you go over to the Disneyland Paris forum, everyone over there insists that their parks are not as bad as some make it out to be and that it's still worth it. Based on that, and the fact that I really wanted to see Phantom Manor, I went, going with an open mind and a great amount of excitement. My family even made us several hours late, and usually I would have been upset, but because I was so excited I didn't let it bring me down and entered the parks with the utmost enthusiasm. Being there for myself, I unfortunately saw a lot of the bad that is mentioned over there (plus the stench that no one had talked about which made me sick all day). I went regardless of the negative things that had been said about it because there were still people that said, "No, really, it's not as bad as they make it out to be!" But it was (in my eyes), and it was a heartbreaking experience. Not everything was bad...Crush's Coaster was amazing, and I could have stared at the Maleficent dragon for hours, but sadly those were the only things that made a good impression on me.

    I don't think that WDW is as bad-off as Disneyland Paris, but don't you see my trepidation? I always believe in forming opinions for oneself, but it becomes more complicated when you don't have a lot of money and you know the subject in question is going to get expensive.
    Well Dan Young kind of took the words right out of my mouth in this situation and i echo his sentiments as he echoed my own. I appreciate your story but as someone who has been to Disney in Paris, Orlando, and Anaheim, in my humble opinion, I believe that Orlando is the superior location. Again that's just my opinion everybody has one and that's why I suggested you go (and yes sediment guaranteed it would not be money wasted). I took information from your previous post and all those things suggested you would enjoy the WDW I know and love. Granted I am not a frequent visitor like Kevin, I am a roughly once a year visitor, and Disney world is by all means not perfect there are problems here and there but as Kevin wisely just said:

    "to a limited extent it doesn't matter what the infrequent visitor sees. What matters is what they FEEL. If the parks are magical, then enough details are still there. If the magic is lacking, then the frequent visitors are justified in sounding the alarm."

    Now Ive sounded the alarm on certain issues such as the yeti, but the parks as a whole still really do have their magic, the same magic I found in Cali and (to a certain extent) in Paris. so again i say, go to WDW and come see for yourself, there's an all new value resort open up and many money saving options, if you need any help planning don't hesitate to ask.

    To Kevin: again, this was not directed at you and yourself alone, as i said previously I believe you do an admirable job of showing both sides. however as a frequent visitor i believe its hard NOT to be over critical as you have more an opportunity to see these issues. keep fighting the good fight because the more issues that are resolved, the less chances the infrequent visitor has to see errors at the park. again I just don't want other people to be prevented going to WDW because of what they have read online because the decline is not as great as presented by some in certain situations.

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