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Thread: 4/24: Tired

  1. #91

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkflutterby View Post
    I think the thing that is upsetting the WDW home base fans (I'm not calling them Eastcoasters, WDW is more popular than DLR in Europe so really it's not an Eastcoast issue) is the idea we deserve a poorer service.

    And we have been complaining, lots. If you go onto the forum for WDW you will see countless threads complaining about the Yeti, Hotels, transport, various Epcot rides, Pleasure Island, The Adventures Club, Westside, Ticket Prices, maintenance issues etc.

    The Sentinel has published lots of articles about the decline in degrees, Kevin Yee does a fabulous job highlighting these and I don't think there is anyone on this board who would defend WDW for not repairing lights or not going that extra mile for a guest. That's why the majority of us are here, because we are not seasonal tourists and we are passionate about DISNEY not just WDW.

    Flip the situation. If Kevin wrote an article about the Fantasyland expansion and threw in a comment that DLR wouldn't be getting something because the visitors there did not deserve it, the reaction would be just as hostile.
    Al was not saying that everyone deserves poor quality and service. He was directing the comment at those who defend Disney at every turn. What I think we need to do is slow down and really think deeper as to what his motivations are. This notion that he would blatantly want to criticize every WDW user on this website isn't even logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xadllas View Post
    You basically just proved his point. Good job!
    Last edited by Seawolf; 04-24-2012 at 11:26 PM.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Thanks for demoting my reputation, it really took a blow to my ego. ;D

    Could you do it again? I like being naughty.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    P.S. I'm just jealous that you have a Carousel of Progress, a Peoplemover, a taller castle, an EPCOT, and that you can get a haircut in a barbershop on Main Street.
    I second that..... And I am jealous how much bigger wdw is , I go to dlr 80 - 100 times a year but my one trip to wdw is always my most exciting. I wish the dlr was half the size of wdw but we would need to relocate an entire city and I don't see that happening there will always be something to fix somewhere is just costs lots of money. They are always working on the parks it just takes time. They are building new lands on both coasts right now and I'm sure once they are done they will start working on something new. Unfortunately they have stock holders that don't want to see them dump tons of money at once. I don't think we need west coast vs east we can leave that for the rapers. I am a contractor and I am always noticing sloppy work and broken stuff but when I go to Disney Parks I try and leave out that and foucas in on relaxing and having fun that is why I go all the time , to escape the outside world for a bit...... Isn't that why Walt made it so you couldn't see out of his park?
    Last edited by Trav1Disney; 04-25-2012 at 01:01 AM.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    No, they deserve to be called good consumers who are taking advantage of Disney's decision to "paper the house" with cheap admissions media -- so cheap that fully-utilized Passports can get you a day at Disneyland for less than the price of a movie ticket. Literally, the cheapest venue in town.
    So if you are getting a deal... you're immune from being generalized and mocked.. Right..

    Maybe Al is just upset that the mult-ipark Starbucks story wasn't what he was reporting and needed to lash out.

    Just because people still enjoy what they like about a product doesn't mean they don't acknowledge other problems nor that they don't care. I can appreciate the work on the new Art of Animation property.. independent of my concerns over the last space mountain refurb. To deny that means DLR fans were just as 'deserving' of the crap of the DL in the 90s because they didn't give up the product entirely.

    ---------- Post added 04-25-2012 at 06:31 AM ----------

    I agree with former imagineer extradroidary Eddie Sotto's comments on Starbucks in the parks..

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Sotto
    It will be packed from open till close, a photo op, a huge hit with guests for sure, it's an improvement in quality of their coffee and that's great. I'll buy their coffee too as I'm a Starbucks fan, but to me Starbucks symbolizes the homogenization of cities and emerged as a recent brand unlike Coca Cola and Kodak. No matter how much you theme it, it's iconic. Like putting a McDonald's in the Sahara on an Oasis. The symbolism is bigger than the product, "it's everywhere". You cannot escape today's urban world even if you pay admission. I know and agree that guests will love it. They don't care. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just want to escape to another world and have unique experiences.
    He's right.. it just brings more and more of the outside, generic, world into the park. Starbucks no matter how you dress it.. is still the same Starbucks product and sales experience you expect to get in your local corner shop.

    It's in effect.. Disney is outsourcing because Disney can't cut it themselves and instead need to pull in an outside brand/operation to get up to snuff.

    Imagine if Disney started saying 'our attractions aren't good enough, so lets just bring in the same experiences you can get at your local mall or stadium'. Sure people would enjoy them.. but it's no longer a Disney unique thing you would seek out as Disney and as a special reason to come to Disneyland.

    Disney can't beat 'em.. so Disney's joined 'em.
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  5. #95

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveColorado View Post
    Some of you are STILL missing the point. It's not that the WDW adherents are not complaining but they are too quick to defend mediocracy and declining quality. Remember back in the early 2000s when both DL and DCA were rather poor quality? Almost everyone from Al on down were critical and very few were defending what was happening. Conversely, I see a majority of WDW-goers refusing to be critical and attacking those that dare to be critical. Those are the people (not all) that deserve what they get.

    Disclaimer: I have been to WDW and while I had some unique experiences, I have not been interested in taking my son there. Instead, we spent a week in DL a couple of years ago and felt we had a much better experience given the cost.
    Again I don't agree with the notion that we WDW fans are defending mediocrity. We've been bashing on things such as Chester and Hester's DinoRama since it's very existence. (Let's not forget the DHS hat.) When the FL Expansion plans were introduced at D23 2009 did you guys hear the ginormous groan from the audience when it was revealed that it be a mostly Princess Meet n Greet Expansion? Okay there was laugh afterwards following the groan but it was a proven point to how ridiculous and disappointing the expansion was. I think that was what got the suits thinking until eventually the expansion plans changed though only minor. I want nothing more than to slap these suits in the face for insulting the fans by replacing a dark ride with a meet and greet but how could we as WDW fans be able to get our voices heard spread out as we are? I say don't punish the people who want quality in a place that's supposed to be a world-class destination resort just because a few are constantly defending what's there. Go on the WDW forum and you'll find a good amount of negativity toward the condition that WDW is degrading to or read Kevin Yee's weekly article. They're not topics we enjoy discussing by any means but it shows that we see what needs work for WDW to get back to the world class reputation it gained in the late 80s and early 90s.
    Last edited by toonaspie; 04-25-2012 at 04:37 AM.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    There's a reason WDW fans are offended, and rightfully so.

    WDW and DL have a drastically different guest profile. There are WDW fans who notice the decline by degrees, write letters, speak up, but guess what? Many times these efforts are ignored. I personally know of people who created website to Save the Adventurer's Club, organized letter writing campaigns, spoke out in almost every venue possible. Did that make a difference in the decision to close PI? Nope.

    One of the larger reasons is because DL fans have Disneyland right in their backyards, or a short drive away. There is a loyal WDW fanbase, however, many live farther away. Not only that, but WDW attracts many more visitors from overseas and from other states, tourists who aren't AP holders. The percentage of guests who have APs compared to those who fall more in the tourist category is MUCH different than the ratio at Disneyland. TDO knows this. We can fight, but until it gets REALLY bad and the tourists start to notice and determine that WDW isn't a value, TDO seems to be able to ignore us.

    I worked in Guest Relations at WDW, and I love my parks. To say that we "deserve this" is quite frankly, appalling. There are those of us, many of whom are Cast Members, who love our parks, and who fully acknowledge the issues that exist within them. I can't STAND Disco Yeti, and don't get me started on Hester and Chester's Dinorama. While I do applaud the effort to bring new life into Fantasyland, and it seems like they are paying more attention to detail than normal, if they think that this is going to combat WWHP down at IOA, they are in for a rude awakening.

    You just CANNOT ignore the fact that the typical WDW visitor is much different than the DL visitor, and that is not in any way a fault of our own.

    Also, Al, you got something wrong. I could be mistaken, because I worked GR at WDW and not DL, but training for Guest Relations is closer to a month, NOT two weeks.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    Al was not saying that everyone deserves poor quality and service. He was directing the comment at those who defend Disney at every turn. What I think we need to do is slow down and really think deeper as to what his motivations are. This notion that he would blatantly want to criticize every WDW user on this website isn't even logical.
    I think what would end all of this is for Al himself to explain the comments. We could guess all day long but no one really knows but him.

  8. #98

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by penguinsoda View Post
    I'm happy to hear that the dance floor and stage will remain intact and the swing dancing will return to DL.... but the flying tires? The ride system didn't work the first time around with the flying saucers. There really isn't a lot of new technology to a ride system like that, that could make much improvement to the way it works. The fact that they are already having some issues with it does not surprise me in the least. It was an interesting concept, but they should of come up with something totally new and different... and functional in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    I still don't understand why they dont just split the pad for LFT in half and split the line. Then you could have one group loading while the other group is riding. This would increase capacity slightly as well as create a smoother flowing line for the attraction. I swear I read somewhere that they can control which areas of the pad have air flow and which ones do not. It just seems silly to me that no one thought of this issue earlier in the process. If WDI had used there brains earlier they would have built smaller tires (increased capacity with more tires and more enjoyment and less learning curve since smaller tires would be easier to get moving), lighter tires that used venting to expell air not needed for lift so that it did not have the same issues of the original flying tires, split the pad into two sides (increasing capacity and improving line flow), and added pinball style bumpers to push the tire across the surface and increase the fun of the ride. Put me down as disappointed in what I'm hearing about the ride.



    Here's my take on the flying tires: Back when these were flying saucers in Tomorrowland, they BOUNCED. You can see video of guests not only leaning and trying to steer, but BOUNCING across the floor. In an attempt to accommodate guests of all sizes, they made these tires into Humvees which lethargically cruise their way around the ride. Even when they bump into each other, they look SO stable that the impact seems like it is barely felt and they seem to move rather sssslllloooowwwlllyyy. I know I shouldn't judge the ride until after I've been on it, but the "meh" response from the cast members so far, along with the video, seems to be pointing in that direction. When these things were smaller, they seemed to be much more fun, but if you were over a certain weight, they wouldn't move at all...from what I've read. In order to create a ride that everyone could enjoy, regardless of weight, they lost a bit of the magic of the original. I don't think Disney will come right out and say that as it is a sensitive issue. To this day, I think they'll still deny that this is the reason they swapped out the boats on It's A Small World.
    Last edited by Mac Daddy; 04-25-2012 at 06:28 AM.

  9. #99

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    New mindset:
    Over time this attraction could become addictive the way Buzz Lightyear and Toy Story Mania are, because riders will be able to improve their skill levels. This will enable the unathletic like me to feel the thrill of victory we could never enjoy on something requiring coordination, youth, and losing 25 pounds.
    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by sueb View Post
    Al strikes me as, what he was described as in a national paper, a watchdog; a sometimes grumpy one. He goes for the kill on both sides when it seems that the only cause is stupidity or short sightedness.

    There are grumpy people everywhere; I choose to take the harshness with a grain of salt.
    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMaxx View Post
    Learning to ride Luigi's doesn't seem to be all that different from the Flying Saucers I rode as a kid. My first time out, I don't think I moved more than a few feet. Second time, I actually moved across the entire surface until I ran into the side. I was thrilled! Third ride, I was golden, going wherever I wanted.

    Just because there is a learning curve, doesn't mean it's doomed to be a failure. The capacity issues, might just the bigger issue. All I know is that I'm willing to face the lines until I hit that magical time were I'm the master of my vehicle, once again.
    Thank you so much for this insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUSHIE View Post
    Al's anger towards the Flying Tires, even though it seems he has yet to ride it himself is pretty obvious. Even though hearsay does give a idea of what an experience is like it's nothing like trying it first hand. Obviously there is some learning curve, I don't think that could really be a bad thing. I've seen many kids stuck in the corner at bumper cars, but that's still an attraction that many people love.

    I do understand though that getting these things to work is a bit more difficult and the control of bumper cars is almost a common sense thing nowadays.
    Ditto. He stated that "The results were mixed". Yet his review is 99% negative. The only positive regarding the attraction itself is doubling the ride time. What kind of mixed review is only filled with negatives?? You have to balance a mixed review with some positives.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrerJon View Post
    "Oh-kay - that should do it for today. Remember your support is vital, your donations to PayPal help keep the bills paid. We’re only here due to all of your kind efforts."

    I'd actually advise anyone thinking of donating *not to* after this article. Never mind asking for donations, how about Al retires and lets Kevin Yee (who is a much better writer) take over the site?


    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I'm a little nervous about Luigi's Flying Tires but I'll still give it a try. I'm not sure I'll want to wait 2-3 hours to ride it...hopefully some of the madness will die down after a bit. I think this is going to be more upsetting for the visitors that don't live nearby, as they won't have as many opportunities to get it all down.
    Although I do feel upset for out of towners, for the locals, this can be a very repeatable attraction at least once per visit. I couldn't imagine a group trying to visit the attraction more than twice a day given its potential wait time. A plus for the rumored early entries.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

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  10. #100

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Upgrade From Starbucks ASAP!!!

    I hope they upgrade from Starbucks ASAP. I hope they use some better California roasters. I know McDonalds is higher ranked than Starbucks but seeing a brand in Disney Parks ruins my escape from the real world. Since sipping Starbucks makes me want to puke, I'll have to obtain from it if I want to go on any rides. Can't wait for another new source for coffee in the park.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMaxx View Post
    Learning to ride Luigi's doesn't seem to be all that different from the Flying Saucers I rode as a kid. My first time out, I don't think I moved more than a few feet. Second time, I actually moved across the entire surface until I ran into the side. I was thrilled! Third ride, I was golden, going wherever I wanted.

    Just because there is a learning curve, doesn't mean it's doomed to be a failure. The capacity issues, might just the bigger issue. All I know is that I'm willing to face the lines until I hit that magical time were I'm the master of my vehicle, once again.

  12. #102

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    Wink Re: 4/24: Tired

    Al boy did you open up a hornets nest. S let me see if I can help increase the fires Disnayland kicks WDW but
    Dave

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    I'd figure if manuvering the Flying tires is so tough, they'll should have monitors up showing exactly how to manage them. Hell, with a 2 hour wait you can see that video 59 times.

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    I still don't understand why they dont just split the pad for LFT in half and split the line. Then you could have one group loading while the other group is riding. This would increase capacity slightly as well as create a smoother flowing line for the attraction... and added pinball style bumpers to push the tire across the surface and increase the fun of the ride. Put me down as disappointed in what I'm hearing about the ride.
    There was concept art that depicted separate pads. I'm sure they have a reason for doing what they did in the final product. I also thought about pinball style bumpers around the perimeter.

    Don't knock it til you tried it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Not My Real Name View Post
    I, for one, welcome a ride like the Flying Tires because it's not one more ride where we just sit passively in our seats holding onto a lap bar. This ride takes skill and experience to fully appreciate it and I say "Bravo!" That's what real life is like. It's why I still ride Autopia and the Teacups and Roger Rabbit and BLAB and TSMM and why little kids like Dumbo and the Orbitron; they're interactive. It's why video games (and pinball before them) are so popular. There should be more rides like these.

    I find it interesting that Al hasn't posted here yet.

    This is an amazing perspective! Thank you for you voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePurz View Post
    The constantly snarky (even bitchy) tone in these columns has pretty much driven me away from this site. I removed it from my Facebook and Twitter feeds and only check the it occasionally to get info on timelines and upcoming events.

    I DO enjoy Andy's photo updates and look for them every week. They are TOP NOTCH! But seriously, Al should get on some meds to improve his negative view of almost every change Disney makes.

    I nearly never post because of this, but today's comments couldn't be ignored.

    Sheesh!
    DOUBLE DITTO!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    Really, you let an article bother you that much? It's very simple, if you don't appreciate Al's comments then why are you continually reading them?
    Did you not read what he posted? He checks for "timelines and upcoming events." As do I. I do not understand your reply to Xadllas from post #91. What is that supposed to mean??


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    You mean WDI still hasn't pitched the idea of Tire Training Simulators? It's a no-brainer: just convert a few dozen of those coin-op... rides that sit outside grocery stores, into Luigi's Tire simulators that allow underinflated "Noob Tubes" to get the feel before they get in the queue. "Find the Balance Point! Get in Touch With Your Inner Tube! Don't Look Like An Idiot on the Platform, Look Like An Idiot Here!"

    Interesting proposal. I wonder if the queue will or could be interactive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkflutterby View Post
    I think what would end all of this is for Al himself to explain the comments. We could guess all day long but no one really knows but him.
    He's MIA. He invites us at the end of the article to discuss. Despite this, he's nowhere to be found...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Daddy View Post
    I know I shouldn't judge the ride until after I've been on it, but the "meh" response from the cast members so far, along with the video, seems to be pointing in that direction.
    Anyone stop to think maybe all the "meh" sayers are the ones who haven't figured out how to optimize their tires?

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
    -Jurassic Park

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    Re: 4/24: Tired

    I've visited both parks many times, but only first visited DL on my honeymoon. They are two totally different experiences, and excel at different things. Don't forget that DL's Pooh is horrendously bad, and all the bitching in the world didn't change it.

    But, to me the more crazy thing Al said in this article was that he didn't know if Transformers would be better than RSR. Unless they have been hiding something HUGE in the RSR show building, there is absolutley no comparison. And since they have the same height requirement of 40", there will only be a small fraction of kids tall enough to ride, but a little scared by a 30 foot tall robot coming after them. I still see Carsland vastly missing the crazy crowded expectations. Now with Luigi's looking like a miss, RSR will have to shoulder the entire load of Carsland expectations, with a ride that is mostly traveling 35 mph in a big car through fake rocks. If I want to do that, I'm choosing Big Thunder all day long.

    The Cars franchise is Lassiter's Achille's heel. First, he stopped Pixar's movie streak with an unecessary sequel, and now he's spending huge money on a DCA fix that I just don't see delivering longterm. He's said many times it is his personal passion. But it's not everyone else's passion. Transformers are way more relevent than Lightning McQueen, and they've been around decades longer.

    I guess the sheep at DL that bring Anaheim to a standstill on leap day are getting what they deserve, a really expensive D-ticket .

    -Jason

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