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Thread: 6/22: Big Bear

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    6/22: Big Bear

    Sue reviews Pixar's Brave - Discuss it here...

    DIRECT ARTICLE LINK: Big Bear - MiceAge.com
    "Politics is the profession whereby the inevitable is made to seem a great human achievement" - Quentin Crisp

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    The movie sounds like a feminist rant in cartoon form. So she doesn't want to marry. How about the boy? It seems like marriage is not good for the independent females, but for men, it is a natural course for them to acquire their wives and brood.

    Also, I heard the stuff about bow and arrows is not realistic. Maybe Hungar Games made bows and arrows seem attainable for women to handle, but not all are convinced.

    This movie may be Pixar's first female lead, but not for Disney movies, which have female leads for many many film releases. Not sure why we emphasize the "first" when it is more important to do a good movie. This lackluster review reminds me of Mulan, Princess and the Frog, and Pocohontas. They all took the female roles to a more feminist approach and less satisfying result.

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    There's been a lot of doomsayers when it comes to Pixar, especially after they were acquired by Disney, this was around the time Cars was about to come out, would the Lamp be worth the billions paid for it?

    When Cars 2 flopped . . . critically . . . a lot of folks wondered if Pixar wouldn't make fresh films. Cars 2 only got 38% positive score on rotten tomatoes, Brave is tracking around 70%.

    And yet, Cars 2 made much more in the foreign box office than Cars and turned Disney a little profit outside of merchandising and helping to add to the Cars universe. Yes, Cars 2 wasn't as good as it could have been, but it's better than a lot of other films out there, IMHO. I'm glad their making Cars 3 as Cars 2 was the sort of film that had a mediocre plot, but the characters helped salvage the film.

    Brave had a change in the director, if I'm not mistaken, this can have an effect on the overall feel of the film and produce a more heterogenous film. Haven't seen Brave yet, but they get automatic points with me for being more original than a sequel, plus I really love the feel of Brave. I'd say Brave is a turn around from Cars 2, but we all know it takes longer than a year to make these movies.

    Given that Brave gets the princess audience, plus the loyal Pixar fans, plus given that it is the first non-sequel since Toy Story 3 and Cars 2, plus since the new director mercifully added some action sequences for us guys (I loved Disney's Robin Hood as kid, the action helped the film, though the plot was good too), we're looking at one of Pixar's best grossing films, maybe the top film, IMHO.

    Given that it will be a huge success at the box office, Pixar might look at having more films with girl characters.

    As for a feminist angle, I don't really see it in that girls in the US don't participate in arranged marriages and they have careers. I think this plot point was introduced to create tension before the stuff that happens later. Can't let the wires go slack!

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Cool, this makes me want to see it. I kinda got burnt out on standard formulaic Pixar films, and they're now making sequels of their good but not great movies like Monsters Inc. Glad they are trying new directions.

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    I saw Brave two weeks ago and couldn't agree more with Sue's review. I'm glad I saw it spoiler-free, but the 'twist' was exactly what ruined the movie for me. The first third is a masterpiece, it's awesome. Once the twist happens, though, the movie turned from something magical to a kid's movie. The ending was pretty good, though. It was a little 'by the book' for Pixar and Merida sort of disappeared as central to the story about halfway through.

    It's a real shame, the movie is the most beautiful Pixar film to date and I really wanted to love it. It's ok n' all, but not Pixar level of amazeballs. It's also worth nothing that the twist turns the film into an exact copy of a previous Disney film that bombed. That was a VERY strange story decision.

    ---------- Post added 06-22-2012 at 11:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by eicarr View Post
    Cool, this makes me want to see it. I kinda got burnt out on standard formulaic Pixar films, and they're now making sequels of their good but not great movies like Monsters Inc. Glad they are trying new directions.
    You're glad they're making sequels and copying old film twists for new ones? Let the flame wars begin!

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Quote Originally Posted by ex-wdi View Post
    I saw Brave two weeks ago and couldn't agree more with Sue's review. I'm glad I saw it spoiler-free, but the 'twist' was exactly what ruined the movie for me. The first third is a masterpiece, it's awesome. Once the twist happens, though, the movie turned from something magical to a kid's movie. The ending was pretty good, though. It was a little 'by the book' for Pixar and Merida sort of disappeared as central to the story about halfway through.

    It's a real shame, the movie is the most beautiful Pixar film to date and I really wanted to love it. It's ok n' all, but not Pixar level of amazeballs. It's also worth nothing that the twist turns the film into an exact copy of a previous Disney film that bombed. That was a VERY strange story decision.

    You're glad they're making sequels and copying old film twists for new ones? Let the flame wars begin!
    I think that the post above was sort of complaining that they are making sequels of Pixar's "good", but not great films. I think the fact that Brave is not a sequel is a plus.

    While I like a lot of Pixar's films, some of them border on emotional manipulation as they can be very emotional, kids throw toys away that become depressed about this, the opening montage of Up was really sad.

    Its OK to have movies like that, but I like the Pixar's films like Ratatouille and Cars, where any morals and drama is sort of blunted by the fantasy of the film. Given all of the things happening in the world today, I don't want to sit through another 15 minutes like Up for a while. I did enjoy watching Up, and we all cheered when Karl escapes his impending relocation to the home, but I don't walk around Disneyland hoping to live in the world of Up, cause it is pretty everyday, including the world of Toys.

    In Wall-E's world I guess I'd be 200 lbs heavier and sitting in a floating chair . . . we all get to see what its like to live in Radiator Springs, with Brave a similar fantasy world was created, so in addition to the story, you get a world that you want to step into and "loose" a couple of arrows. Nemo was similar in that there was a story, actually not that creative, sort of like Gepetto out look for his son, instead of shouting Pinocchio! for a couple minutes, he's shouting Nemo! for much longer . . .

    The majority of critics give Brave thumbs up, and with an estimated opening of +$60 million this weekend, I think it will do a little bit better, maybe closer to $70 million, and develop longer running legs making the total run more like Nemo, and less like Wall-E. I think the fans who are disappointed with Brave liked Pixar films like Wall-E, Up, which had a lot of dystopia and dysphoric emotions woven into the plot.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 06-22-2012 at 10:52 AM.

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The movie sounds like a feminist rant in cartoon form. So she doesn't want to marry. How about the boy? It seems like marriage is not good for the independent females, but for men, it is a natural course for them to acquire their wives and brood.

    Also, I heard the stuff about bow and arrows is not realistic. Maybe Hungar Games made bows and arrows seem attainable for women to handle, but not all are convinced.

    This movie may be Pixar's first female lead, but not for Disney movies, which have female leads for many many film releases. Not sure why we emphasize the "first" when it is more important to do a good movie. This lackluster review reminds me of Mulan, Princess and the Frog, and Pocohontas. They all took the female roles to a more feminist approach and less satisfying result.
    Well, please bear (haha) in mind that for most of history, marriage for women was pretty much the end of any freedom they previously enjoyed. In the medieval Scottish setting that Brave presents, her husband would doubtless be able to continue hunting, fighting, infidelity- all without fear of punishment or public shame. Brave, I felt, quite accurately depicted a situation in which boys- even married boys, like the king- are still permitted to be boys, whereas women must be pinnacles of virtue and modesty in order to gain respect. And once you actually see the movie, you may notice that the suitors' perspectives are not ignored. This film isn't a feminist rant (and after a few millenia of enforced marriage, required child-bearing, and widespread abuse, are we not entitled to a bit of ranting, or should we ask our husbands' permission first?) but rather a commentary on the natural struggle all teenagers, male and female, go through with their parents eventually.

    As to the bow and arrows, I don't know what you mean about it not being realistic- what exactly is realistic archery compared to fake archery in a cartoon? We see her as a young girl unable to shoot, and then, many years later, she has become a good archer. Is that unrealistic? And I'm sorry, but are you implying with your comment about "not all are convinced" that women are somehow genetically incapable of shooting arrows? Would you have had a problem with this "unrealistic" archery if the hero was a male? Please spend some time this summer watching the women's archery in the Olympics, if this is the case. If I've misunderstood, forgive my "feminist rant."

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Im in San Fran and drove over to see it in Emeryville and I LOVED it
    it had a lot of mythical elements in but did not change my thoughts about it

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    I saw the movie today and loved it. It's beautiful, has a good story, good characters, good laughs and good heart. The only thing I think it lacked is guts. Wall-E and Up were phenomenal movies because they were gutsy. A story about a robot with almost no dialogue? A kids movie with a 70-something protagonist? Gutsy. Brave is a bit more formulaic, but still wonderful.

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Within the first few minutes of the movie, you see Merida as a toddler, which, WOULDN'T YOU KNOW is conveniently available for purchase at The Disney Store. I hope Pixar is ashamed to have their name on this movie, because all I saw while sitting in that movie theater was pure Disney- a movie released just to sell dolls and stuffed animals and bed sheets and dresses. This movie has absolutely NONE of the heart that is anticipated in a Pixar movie! Toy Story and Cars and Finding Nemo toys sell because their movies have an engaging storyline with characters you care about (not to mention gorgeous computer animation). Merida is just another entry in the Princess merchandising machine. With only a second thought being to have her in a movie.

    I was more enthralled by the few minutes of the short "La Luna" than I was with the entire running time of Brave.
    It's actually "Cars Land", not "Carsland".

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    I very much enjoyed the film. I laughed and cried and was engrossed. It might partially be because my heritage is FINALLY represented in animation, or it might be that it was a great movie! I would even consider it a piece of art. They managed to make a movie kids and adults both will enjoy and wouldn't you know it, that is the point of movies.

    Now as for the BS above about merchandising. It is a movie, that is what it is all about. If you don't like that a company makes a movie to make money, then makes themed merchandise to make more money, maybe you should swear off the entertainment industry all together. After all, that is what it is about, MONEY. All to often I see people on MC rant about Disney only doing things for the money. You seem to forget , it is a business, that is the point in a capitalist culture. Yeesh.

    Anyway, I give it 5/5 and would venture you say it is now my favorite Pixar movie. I liked it that much.


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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Brave is a bit more formulaic, but still wonderful.
    This pretty much sums up how I feel. Past Pixar movies have been totally unique - a kid's collection of toys from the toys' perspective, a mythical world where monsters need to make kids scream for energy, a family of superheros who are prohibited from being super. Brave seemed too much like any other princess story where a teen goes against her parents' wishes, something happens to cause drama, and in the end we're saved by the fact that the teen and the parents really do love each other.

    Don't get me wrong - I did enjoy the movie. Some of the scenic shots are spectacular. Pixar is getting good at landscapes and especially water. But I was totally floored by La Luna, the short that preceeded the film. Now that was spectacular!

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    Re: 6/22: Big Bear

    Quote Originally Posted by faerla View Post
    Well, please bear (haha) in mind that for most of history, marriage for women was pretty much the end of any freedom they previously enjoyed. In the medieval Scottish setting that Brave presents, her husband would doubtless be able to continue hunting, fighting, infidelity- all without fear of punishment or public shame. Brave, I felt, quite accurately depicted a situation in which boys- even married boys, like the king- are still permitted to be boys, whereas women must be pinnacles of virtue and modesty in order to gain respect. And once you actually see the movie, you may notice that the suitors' perspectives are not ignored. This film isn't a feminist rant (and after a few millenia of enforced marriage, required child-bearing, and widespread abuse, are we not entitled to a bit of ranting, or should we ask our husbands' permission first?) but rather a commentary on the natural struggle all teenagers, male and female, go through with their parents eventually.
    Boys permitted to be boys. Wow! What insight!!?!! or perhaps boys becoming men as the evolution.

    Forced child bearing? Okay, if you want to be married, having kids is necessary in the relationship. You might think child bearing should be optional in a marriage, but that is modern thinking. Even now, women still seem to want marriage for having children unless they are willing to have cats or going it alone. If being alone is natural for women, then who am I to complain.

    As to the bow and arrows, I don't know what you mean about it not being realistic- what exactly is realistic archery compared to fake archery in a cartoon? We see her as a young girl unable to shoot, and then, many years later, she has become a good archer. Is that unrealistic? And I'm sorry, but are you implying with your comment about "not all are convinced" that women are somehow genetically incapable of shooting arrows? Would you have had a problem with this "unrealistic" archery if the hero was a male? Please spend some time this summer watching the women's archery in the Olympics, if this is the case. If I've misunderstood, forgive my "feminist rant."
    I'm not a archery expert. The commentary I've heard is about the long bow is most or nearly all women are incapable of handling the long bow (which is featured in the cartoon), which is very long and very heavy, and require great upper body strength to pull.

    Okay, it is a cartoon. Not be taken seriously as well as the feminist rant.
    Last edited by StevenW; 06-25-2012 at 08:08 AM.

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