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  1. #31

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    They need to theme Tomorrowland to "the future that never was" (Jules Verne stuff, rocket packs, etc.) or it will forever be dated and cheesy.

  2. #32

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Just looking at the satellite view of tomorrowland in Google Maps. That's a pretty big area that covers the Autopia, Innoventions and the Subs, that they'd have to work with. Would be sad to see the subs go though. Would love to see Adventure Thru Inner Space return in a new format - maybe utilize the same ride tech as Transformers at Universl.

    And what about the unused Motor Boat Cruise lagoon?

  3. #33

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    I think it goes to show just how poor the FNSV attraction really is. If it's implementation is enough to make loyal fans finally give up on the subs.. that really shows just how unwelcome the attraction really is.

    Just hope that doesn't give the suits any other ideas about attractions as a way to evict nostalgia... 'Hey, if we make it bad enough, it will finally get people to give up on the original's presence'. Aka Tarzan/SFR.. TSI.. etc.

    I doubt FNSV really is that much of a hinderance to using the above ground area for other things. It should be possible to put supports through the show building if needed directly or with spans. Autopia for the most part just sits on top at ground level. I think the monorail is far more of an issue of how to work around given its limits on turning radius, etc. And the ride through FL/TL is the only interesting portion of the monorail ride to start with.
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  4. #34

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    I incorrectly thought that Iger was wrong to pay four billion for Marvel, so it might be best to ignore my gut reaction, but I dislike the idea of an entire park based on Marvel. The popularity of the characters could rise and fall, and might be at an all-time high this summer with the excellent Avengers movie recently released.

    Maybe reduce the risk with a less-expensive, largely-indoor (open year round, retractable roof) Marvel water park. Didn't Disney invent the water park with WDW's River Country? They could create new rides with higher capacities and eliminate the need to carry rafts up stairs. A Hulk slide could start calmly then get greener and angrier as it descends.

    This is as good a place as any to write this: CONGRATULATIONS and THANK YOU to everyone at Disney who helped improve DCA! The Disneyland Resort is one of my favorite things about living in S. California and it's great to see it getting even better.

    I've heard some criticism of Bug's land kiddie area, so I just want to comment that although it's no Fantasyland, my daughter liked it when she was three and four. The bugs theming is creative, there's some shade, some family restrooms, and unlike some of the tiny tots' rides at Knott's, I appreciate that I could always ride with her.

    If the old subs go, I'd like an underwater element on at least one of the new attractions, and some water--perhaps an elaborate fountain--to make the area seem cooler in the summer. Water and shady trees rock. (The "rocks" at the Tomorrowland entrance don't rock.) I'd like to see Disney get back to Walt Disney's emphasis on light, entertaining education. Students (and all kids are students, and some adults are life-long learners too) could be edified while they are thrilled. And please make attractions for almost the whole family to enjoy together.

    Has the new DCA brought forth a new Al Lutz?
    Last edited by jcruise86; 06-26-2012 at 05:50 PM.

  5. #35

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    i LIKE THE IDEA OF CHANGES BUT i LOVE THE SUBS AND WOULD PREFER THE UPDATE IT AND NOT TEAR IT OUT. ALSO AS MUCH AS I Want the people mover back. I feel fronterland needs alittle more TLC than Tomorowland
    Dave

  6. #36

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Why not take half of Autopia? We have the expanded combo of the t-land and f-land tracks anyway. More than enough space with the sub lagoon and half the track anyway. Then they don't kill off (all together) a day one favorite.

    Bring back peoplemover in some form and only 20 plus years we have been waiting for something (good) in the COP/AS building.

    What a waste of space.

  7. #37

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by mratigan View Post
    That would be a lot of space
    marvel park .......I don't know

    ---------- Post added 06-26-2012 at 07:43 AM ----------

    That would be a lot of space
    marvel park .......I don't know and welcome to MiceChat algernon

  8. #38

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    So does this mean phase two is off the table?
    Dave

  9. #39

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Once again Al you have done an awesome job of reporting. Thanks for all you do.

    I am excited to see DCA in October.

    As for talk on possible changes in TL all I can say is it's about time. Innoventions has been a waste of space for a long time. Autotopia was a pain the last time we rode it and the subs need to be sunk once and for all. This would be a huge space that can hold many things. I was talking with a cm the other day and he brought up a good point about the People Mover. It will never be removed because it would affect too much area during tear down but maybe with removing a lot of other things in that area it would be possible. As for the monorail I think it will have to be incorporated into anything they do because it is an important part of the park and as much an icon as the train. I just hope the talk becomes a reality.

    The next thing that should be done is more CM parking. Let's face it we as guests need to make sure the people that take care of us are taken care of too.

  10. #40

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    It was interesting that Al noted a push to increase the "ride and crowd" capacity of Disneyland. It would be hard to replace the ride capacity of the subs and Autopia. Autopia is a workhorse attraction that has a capacity of maybe 3,200 per hour, plus 800 for the subs, that's 4,000 rides per hour! If they take out both of these attractions, then they'd need to add a people eater like Pirates plus another ride, in the same area. If they tore down Innoventions, then they might have enough room for three rides, but it would be a tight fit.

    The obvious fix needed for Tomorrowland is the People Mover track, the old Astro-Orbiter area, Innoventions. They could rip out Innoventions, build a completely new track in the footprint of the older people mover track, and put in a Tron type ride that flies through Tomorrowland and has some dark ride section without tearing out Autopia/Subs.

    There is always a line for the subs, and the families with little kids love the attraction, I doubt it will be replaced. Remember that when the subs were taken out of MK it was in large part because the maintenance department whined and moaned and completely fabricated stories of pinhole sized cracks in the subs. With the latest LED technology, there is no reason whatsoever to be replacing "tens of thousands of dollars" of bulbs each month, that is a complete lie by somebody. The subs are electric now, and the ride was just opened in 2007 and has long lines, plus Lasseter loves the characters in Finding Nemo . . . doesn't make sense to take them out, from a financial standpoint as they can (and probably will) build the new ride on unused land, hence drastically increasing both ride and crowd capacity.

    Autopia needs to go electric like Hong Kong Disneyland, it is an original 1955 attraction that is a rite of passage for little kids and, tongue in check, is more "interactive" than RSR. The suits don't have a problem that Autopia is popular, only that they want the land. Sorry, but you need land for an outdoor ride like this, it is what makes it pleasant.

    So, ripping out the subs AND Autopia would only marginally improve ride capacity, if they build Western River Expedition by expanding Disneyland north of Big Thunder, and move Circle D, that would be best as you'd get both greatly increased ride and crowd capacity.

    I doubt a third gate will get anywhere close to being greenlit, yeah folks are milling about in DCA because Carsland brought them inside this park, I doubt that the attendance patterns for the rest of DCA will hold up, BVS/Carsland are the stars.

    TDA is just so surprised with the success of Carsland that its like they discovered fire and there's an urge to suddenly build something else of high quality. People got to remember that DCA still needs to prove itself in the eyes of the bean counters, and also pay for the enhancements, which will take time.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 06-26-2012 at 11:26 AM.

  11. #41

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    I don't understand people saying they should change the theme of the subs back. The issue isn't the theme of the attraction. The issues are that it's an incredibly slow loader, extremely expensive to operate and covers waaaaay too much acreage for the payoff it gives back.
    I'd miss the Subs alot too, but it's time has come.
    "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

  12. #42

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Remember that when the subs were taken out of MK it was in large part because the maintenance department whined and moaned and completely fabricated stories of pinhole sized cracks in the subs
    While they exaggerated the issues - it doesn't change that the attraction is extremely intensive to operate and maintain.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    With the latest LED technology, there is no reason whatsoever to be replacing "tens of thousands of dollars" of bulbs each month, that is a complete lie by somebody
    They are talking about PROJECTION bulbs more likely - not light bulbs. And you can't replace those types of bulbs with LED yet. Tho 'tens of thousands' sounds absurd.
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  13. #43

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    and the ride was just opened in 2007 and has long lines
    It has long lines because it only loads 800 people an hour. A ride doesn't have to be very popular to have long lines when loading that slowly.
    "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

  14. #44

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Quote Originally Posted by TodAZ1 View Post
    I don't understand people saying they should change the theme of the subs back. The issue isn't the theme of the attraction. The issues are that it's an incredibly slow loader, extremely expensive to operate and covers waaaaay too much acreage for the payoff it gives back.
    I'd miss the Subs alot too, but it's time has come.
    Luigi's Flying Tires is also a slower loader, and probably also have an expensive maintenance budget . . .

    I think that adults aren't necessarily wowed by LFTs, or Subs, but little kids love them, and for the parents there is at least some interesting stuff to look at.

    When the built the new sub ride, which opened just five years ago, they talked about the electric motors, the colored recycled glass used to keep it looking fresh . . . I don't believe that the maintenance issues are prohibitive in terms of the return as the ride is still popular.

    ---------- Post added 06-26-2012 at 07:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TodAZ1 View Post
    It has long lines because it only loads 800 people an hour. A ride doesn't have to be very popular to have long lines when loading that slowly.
    That's not entirely true, a ride with long lines has guests waiting in those lines who are willing to wait 40+ minutes to see Nemo and friends. Most of the people in those lines have ridden before, know what they are getting, and yet wait 40+ minutes.

    I rode Nemo last time I visited, waited 35 minutes, and it was worth it, though I think it is annoying how Nemo's father keeps yelling out "Nemo!".

  15. #45

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    Re: 6/26: Bon Voyage?

    Thanks, Al, as always for a great update. My thoughts:

    1. I am happy they are going to consider reworking Tommorowland. It likely needs a complete overhaul (more than just taking out the Subs, Autopia, and Innoventions...) I think they need to address the Peoplemover: either restore it or remove it... Rework the whole land. We are on the verge of commercial space exploration. We are going to need to look to alternative power sources. I will be sad to see the subs go, but I understand the capacity issue. Yes I do.

    2. Why do I think a new Marvel park is going to look like EPCOT? Oh yeah that is right Stark Expo from Iron Man 2.

    3. Why isn't Disney looking into a Water Park?

    4. DCA isn't finished. But I think they have officially run out of steam...
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