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  1. #46

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment
    Two words: Manzanarland!! Separate little prison, er Gulag, er Concentration Camp, er, whatever, that we'd keep Japanese tourists in, until they joined our army. They could experience what it was like to be an American with Japanese ancestry. Throw Stitch in, for laughs.
    Not to mention the anti Italian sentament durring the time... It got so bad in the early 70's they had "Proud to be Italian-American" PSA's on TV!!!

    (Of course that never gets into the history books...)
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  2. #47

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    Not to mention the anti Italian sentament durring the time... It got so bad in the early 70's they had "Proud to be Italian-American" PSA's on TV!!!

    (Of course that never gets into the history books...)
    Um, those might have been in response to "The Godfather."
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  3. #48

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    I'm new to this site so please be patient with this newbie.

    I absolutely loved the update. Very informative... with that said when will DL management find the baby they thru out with the bath water with their presenteeism. I'm a former CR CM who DIDN'T want to quit but I only wanted part-time employment (didn't need or want benefits). I worked for 2 years with an average of 22 hrs a week and when their new policy came down from on high and that was it - full time availablity or no time. I scored off the charts on all of my evaluations and wasn't in points trouble but they were totally inflexible. When a company doesn't pay competitive wages they have to have another insentive to attract above average employees. It used to be flexible hours but not anymore. It really is more like indentured servitude than employment. When you sign on you're agreeing to have no life outside of Disney. What is sad is I'd go back tomorrow if I could work part-time w/o benefits and I doubt if I'm the only one in this position. I loved being able to provide MAGIC even if it was only over the phone. If I knew where to find this Mary I'd read her the riot act. She chewed out the CM's that actually showed up to work with limited support and at understaffed locations. Unbelievable. Foods will continue to be understaffed because the working conditions are horrific.

    With regards to DCA - I love it the way it is and truly miss the Soap Oprea Bistro. But I'd LOVE to see the Rockin' Rollarcoaster come west. I don't understand why so many people seem to dislike this park. My hubby will go into DL for me but he prefers DCA.

    Thanks for all the info!

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  4. #49

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Another example of management out of touch with the real world and their CMs that run the park(not them!).

    If Mary did that to me, I would have gone off on her. I don't care for her and I don't even work in Foods. I work in Stores.

    I'll bet she didn't even ask simple questions like how many people do you have on your crew and how many called out? Or how many are you supposed to have on this kind of day?

    Things a lead can easily explain.

    Things you would ask if it's getting too busy.

    But making CMs cry? I hope she can live with her cold heart.

    It all starts from the top and you can see how that's going.

    Nobody deserves that kind of treatment, especially under these conditions.

    I don't think they'll ever truly understand anymore of what's going on. They just want to squeeze more water out of a very, VERY dry rock.

    Just letting you all know, that's the general vibe of all our management, especially at that level.

    *shakes head*

    Bye.
    Last edited by gumby; 04-19-2006 at 01:28 PM.

  5. #50

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by jepple
    No one's really mentioning the thing that concerned me the most in Al's article- the shrinking influence and budget of the DCA placemaking project. If this project doesn't get the funding it really needs to be done right, the money spent might as well be thrown away. An insufficient budget will only change the appearance of DCA, not the quality. And if the budget isn't enough and the project fails to improve the park or evevn attendance, it will be forever used by the suits at TDA as a concrete example that making things look nicer and putting effort towards these things doesn't do a bit of good.
    I second that!

    I do find that disturbing. Will the financial suits ever learn their lesson? They STILL haven't figured out that only reason this "placemaking" project has to happen at all, is because they cheaped out in the first place. I know everyone has lots of different ideas on what should be done to DCA (to my ear, a lot of the ideas Al has mentioned in past articles sound like a huge step in the right direction) But I think everyone could agree that it's going to take a lot of imagination and capitol to be done right! So to hear that they are cheaping out YET AGAIN, is really frustrating. Those 50th crowds aren't going to be overflowing there forever.

    Anyhow, another thing I wanted to mention about Al's column is the issue of how are they going to present the placemaking project to the media? It is interesting and I do agree with Al; I can't fathom a way to put a spin on it without basically saying "come back, we fixed it!" So here my question or thought, why even make a statement or release to the media? I mean, the're not completely retheming it, insofar as, it's still going be Disney's California Adventure. The're not changing the name or main theme. Maybe it's naive of me to think it, but wouldn't they be better off just doing it, then slowly replacing all their press material with the new look, without making a huge fuss about it. Then you could let word of mouth take care of itself -"hey, my friend went again and it's much nicer now" I mean word of mouth quickly worked to let people know that It wasn't great in the first place. (When I say people, I don't mean the people reading this post. I'm sure everyone on here already has a strong opinion either way on DCA. I mean the average non-Disney fanatic visitor, tourist.)

    Don't get me wrong, they should always make a big deal if they open new attractions, and if that's part of the placemaking plan, then I think they should just market those, and not the retheming. I just don't see any point in doing say, a grand reopening or something like that. A big fuss. The media will probably still cover it lightly, and all the hardcores like us will know about it anyway. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

    PS- Great column Al! (If he reads this)
    Last edited by crpeoplemover; 04-19-2006 at 05:28 PM.

  6. #51

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by crpeoplemover
    it's still going be Disney's California Adventure.
    Great post, and I agree that placemaking should not be turned into a campaign, but didn't we hear from Al a while back about a possible name change to the entire park? I think that's what spawned all those "what would you rename DCA?" threads.

    If that does happen, maybe the park's identity will change more than we thought it would. And maybe the park name will be easier to say.
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  7. #52

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by crpeoplemover
    I second that!

    I do find that disturbing. Will the financial suits ever learn their lesson? They STILL haven't figured out that only reason this "placemaking" project has to happen at all, is because they cheaped out in the first place. I know everyone has lots of different ideas on what should be done to DCA (to my ear, a lot of the ideas Al has mentioned in past articles sound like a huge step in the right direction) But I think everyone could agree that it's going to take a lot of imagination and capitol to be done right! So to hear that they are cheaping out YET AGAIN, is really frustrating. Those 50th crowds aren't going to be overflowing there forever.

    Anyhow, another thing I wanted to mention about Al's column is the issue of how are they going to present the placemaking project to the media? It is interesting and I do agree with Al; I can't fathom a way to put a spin on it without basically saying "come back, we fixed it!" So here my question or thought, why even make a statement or release to the media? I mean, the're not completely retheming it, insofar as, it's still going be Disney's California Adventure. The're not changing the name or main theme. Maybe it's naive of me to think it, but wouldn't they be better off just doing it, then slowly replacing all their press material with the new look, without making a huge fuss about it. Then you could let word of mouth take care of itself -"hey, my friend went again and it's much nicer now" I mean word of mouth quickly worked to let people know that It wasn't great in the first place. (When I say people, I don't mean the people reading this post. I'm sure everyone on here already has a strong opinion either way on DCA. I mean the average non-Disney fanatic visitor, tourist.)

    Don't get me wrong, they should always make a big deal if they open new attractions, and if that's part of the placemaking plan, then I think they should just market those, and not the retheming. I just don't see any point in doing say, a grand reopening or something like that. A big fuss. The media will probably still cover it lightly, and all the hardcores like us will know about it anyway. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

    PS- Great column Al! (If he reads this)

    I think the best way to approach the changes IS to make a big deal of the changes. Advertisers go out of their way to put "New and improved" on their products. They know that people are more likely to buy it (or at least try it again if they did not like it before.) Calling it "improved" is adding value to the product.

    If Disney does not say, "Come see our new and improved California Adventure," then the money is wasted. What you want to do is knock the socks off guests. To get your money's worth, you have to have every guest say "WOW, that IS an improvement!" Anything less, will only confirm many peoples opinion that DCA is "not as good." No advertiser wants a product labeled that!
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  8. #53

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan
    I think the best way to approach the changes IS to make a big deal of the changes. Advertisers go out of their way to put "New and improved" on their products. They know that people are more likely to buy it (or at least try it again if they did not like it before.) Calling it "improved" is adding value to the product.

    If Disney does not say, "Come see our new and improved California Adventure," then the money is wasted. What you want to do is knock the socks off guests. To get your money's worth, you have to have every guest say "WOW, that IS an improvement!" Anything less, will only confirm many peoples opinion that DCA is "not as good." No advertiser wants a product labeled that!
    Normally, I would totally agree with you, but I just don't think that applies in this case. Having a campaign like that would basically convey "Hey! you wasted your money before, why don't you try your luck again!"

    But your post reminds me that there is still another issue at play here, which is trust. "Improved" insinuates that they've made a good thing better. I just don't think that will work to convince all the people who spent lots of money (and felt gypped) the first couple years of the resort expansion. Out of towners planned their vacation around it. Even APs bought those ridiculously expensive passes, to enjoy both parks, all based on Disney's assertion that DCA was the greatest thing to ever happen to Disneyland. Were talking a lot of money here, at least the price of admission for a family, which we all know aint cheap. There is a LOT more to lose than buying, say, a new and improved bottle of shampoo. People are automatically going to be skeptical and weary of a campaign like that, so why bother?

    But I just want to reiterate that I'm not advocating ignoring or not marketing DCA at all. What I'm saying is, should any new (good) attractions open as part of this placemaking project, that's what should be advertised, heavily! That's what will get people into the park to see the new overall improvements. The average tourist wants new rides. If they had a big advertising campaign announcing "it's prettier," "it's more disney-eqse," "we've re-themed," only the people who read this post would care. The average visitor couldn't care less about what the sunshine plaza LOOKS like, or WHERE the Golden Dreams is located. (Again, only more astute visitors, like the people who read these posts, know those things make big differences) The average visitor especially wouldn't care if they felt they were gypped and lied to by Disney ads when DCA Opened.

    As far as Disney being worried about the perception of DCA being "not as good," they're way to late for that. That's been the perception in the general public for several years now. You add value and "knock their socks off " by exceeding their expectations. If you add one e-ticket attraction, advertise that only, and get people in there, they would react to the overall changes with, "Hey this place is way nicer then all the bad hype, I'll be sure to tell other people." Whereas if they don't open any new attractions, then make a BIG DEAL about re-theming, even using the words "all new" or "Improved", the average visitor's reaction will be, "Where are the new rides? Just cause they remodeled, they call it improved! This joint hasn't changed a bit!"

    But, I throw this whole point out the window if they do decide for something completely different, new name, new theme. But judging from Al's recent articles, that sounds highly unlikely. But you never know....
    Last edited by crpeoplemover; 04-21-2006 at 02:18 AM.

  9. #54

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Seems there is a little more facts going on over at MOUSEINFO.com
    Jason

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Another great article Al, glad to see your back and enjoyed your trip.

    As for Disney's labor woes, and the comparisons to In and Out and Starbucks, someone needs a lesson in economics.

    In and Out is a small company privately owned, Starbucks is a large public company and NONUNION!!!. The key to Disney's labor woes is not management throwing more money at workers, but CM's decertifing their union. That is right, I said get rid of them. With the union, wages, benefits, workrules, etc are the same for all or a "class of workers". It takes away any incentive for the employer or the employee.

    Take the union away, and let Disney offer more full time positions with better wages and benefits, and let ther seasonal and part timers have less. Let there be a merit system and length of service system where wages and benefits can be increased. This would actually cut Disney's costs, lower turnover and reward those that truly want to work here and maybe make a career of it, and still have the ability to pay higher wages to those part timers and seasonal staff.

    The only benefit of the union is to the union itself. We are seeing this in numerous industries, and those without unions, such as much of the tech sector are flourishing.

    The problem is we will hear it is unfair for Joe to make more than Sam, since they were hired at the same time and do the same job. Even though Joe puts a little more effort in, shows up on time, in uniform and is always willing to help, but Sam just does his job and goes home. Unions see all workers as the same, thus any incentives are gone.

    As long as unemployment remains at these low levels in OC, and the unskilled worker population in this area and around the country, does not want to "work" for a living, Disney will have these labor issues for years to come.
    Last edited by Mr. Lightyear999; 04-26-2006 at 06:02 PM.


  11. #56

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    There is some merit to what Mr.Lightyear999 is saying, and it might be something that may happen down the road. While I don't wish to drag this thread into the realm of 'contract negotiations' mess, some points should be noted. Under the new Master Services Contract, CMs covered by it, hiring in post 3/16/06 really have a poor deal, so the question turly is "what are they paying the union for?" surely there are some benefits, that is not denied, but they have been greatly diminished. Maybe the situation truly has gotten to the point were the CMs of Disneyland would be better served by going non-union.
    It would be interesting if one of the departments broke away and became non-union and see what the result would be, for better or for worse.
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  12. #57

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyFlats
    Good update. A little disappointed concerning RockIt, but I can't say I'm surprised.
    Um, what were those flashing lights all over Space Mountain? Could those be the lights/soft-opening for Rockit Mountain? I was all stoked to see something new at the mountain! Strobe lights lighting up the mountain just looked so cool! Gotta go back tomorrow?
    Took mom to Disneyland for the first time in over 20 years this week! Woo!
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  13. #58

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Something to note about Disneyland's different unions - they all work for Disney. So even though the park may technically be considered union the union reps all work for Disney. Its kind of like mom and dad arguing over how much Johnny's allowance is going to be - Dad (Disney) wants one amount and Mom (Union reps) might want a little higher but doesn't want to make dad mad by fighting for more so Dad (Disney) sets the rules.

    Unfortunally a lot of the CM's are students so they don't know how to fight for more either. My daughter was in foods when the recent contract was presented and they were told "this is the best we could do" and they were just kids what do they know and they approved it.

    I don't see Disney's labor woes changing until they truly recognize that it is their CM's who make the magic and a little respect goes a long way to keeping CM's.

  14. #59

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    Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch

    Quote Originally Posted by dawnid
    Something to note about Disneyland's different unions - they all work for Disney. So even though the park may technically be considered union the union reps all work for Disney. Its kind of like mom and dad arguing over how much Johnny's allowance is going to be - Dad (Disney) wants one amount and Mom (Union reps) might want a little higher but doesn't want to make dad mad by fighting for more so Dad (Disney) sets the rules.

    Unfortunally a lot of the CM's are students so they don't know how to fight for more either. My daughter was in foods when the recent contract was presented and they were told "this is the best we could do" and they were just kids what do they know and they approved it.

    I don't see Disney's labor woes changing until they truly recognize that it is their CM's who make the magic and a little respect goes a long way to keeping CM's.
    Unfortunately, this is not quite correct. The shop stewards and a representative of the CM's work for Disney, but CM's are part of larger unions. In fact the last contract was with the same union that represented the grocery workers. It is not an 18 year old kid doing the negotiations, but adults and lawyers with years of experience. The problem is, as is with most unions now, their concern is their jobs, and not the ones they should represent. Food workers are part of a different union along with hotel workers. If CM's were smart, they would strike their union and then see what changes. How much worse can it be?


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    Exclamation Re: 4/18: Failure to Launch -Department of information Correction and . . .

    There are several items of note for this latest update:

    1 - Mary doesn not get 35% discount on food, unless there is a special event, everybody is at the same rate of 20% on Food. It is 10, 20, or 35% on Merchandise purchases, depending on your status.

    2 - Older item regarding the old Rocket Rod tunnel who's demise was reported - seems that the tunnel was used as a platform to provide seating in Tomorrowland, thus moving a lot of seating out of a traffic path. Now the Guests have Club Buzz Cafe al fresco.

    3 - (sorry, not so much correction, as commentary) - The marketing of the 3Fers was stupid! In a year when Disneyland is celebrating its Golden Anniversary, dropping the price really cheapens the whole experience. For that family from Iowa, who saved for a long time to be part of the Happiest Homecoming on Earth at Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom, and then to have to deal with bargain-paying crowds, is not very friendly.

    4 - (sorry, not so much correction, as commentary) - For the lowly CMs who are not getting paid enough to stay, for their sake, is the public willing to pay for them to get more money in their check? Starbucks coffee is not exactly free, and you cannot get a free refill all day long when you keep yourr cup and your receipt. Ther is little question that the Foods division is in a world of hurt, and what you report is rather common to what has been LONG told of Mary's attitude. She does not respect the CMs that are the backbone of her division and the turnover rate proves that. Of course if she did that to me in that kitchen, my next location would be in Matt Ouimet's office with my Shop Steward and Union head to have a meeting, but that is just me.

    5 - (sorry, not so much correction, as commentary) - agreeing with the comment that Jerry can keep his pirate ship's name. The attraction has been around a lot longer than his movie might be remembered. No doubt that the Black Pearl will remembered in PotC somewhere. The WDI folks are very clever that way.
    Woody: Look Jessie, I know you hate me for leaving, but I have to go back. I'm still Andy's toy. Well, if you knew him, you'd understand. See, Andy's...

    Jessie: Let me guess. Andy's a real special kid, and to him, you're his buddy, his best friend, and when Andy plays with you it's like... even though you're not moving, you feel like you're alive, because that's how he sees you.

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