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  1. #16

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    From those Soarin' in from the States, to brand new, original attractions. One thing's for sure - it'll be Fantasmic!
    Oh man I loved that last line! Hey yeah DCA should replace MM with teh Crush ride! Great article!

    "This guy!"

  2. #17

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    One thing's for sure - it'll be Fantasmic!
    Uh oh, I don't want fantasmic re-done in yet another park.

    Other than that, I'm very excited for this park! Thanks for the great article.

  3. #18

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Hi there everyone. Thanks for the positive feedback - it's great to know you're enjoying the articles. A few more details have come to light since the piece was posted yesterday - the food cart visible at the rear of Toon Studios, beside the gateway to Toon Town, is in fact being towed by Goofy's car. The idea is that Goofy is responsible for the catering at Toon Studios, and he's backed the food stall into the wall. If you look very closely, you'll see some damage to the plasterwork. This raises the question of what will happen to Mickey's trailer, which was supposed to occupy that spot. My guess is that it will stay in its current location between Cinémagique and Disney Channel until further notice. There is no construction scheduled for this area for the next few years, and the Production Courtyard is otherwise void of photo opportunities. (With the exception of the outdoor stage show.)

    The other thing worth noting is that the concept artwork may not show everything that is to be included in the finished section. In particular, the section of wall with the paint stain beside Crush's Turtle Twister should be a lot more interesting when it's actually built. I'm told the Imagineers are determined to use every inch of available space, and every opportunity at their disposal to make this an engageing and lively area of the park. I don't know the details, but you can be sure there will be more than a big splash of paint decorating the side of the building.

  4. #19

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Nice little article. The placemaking will surely start addressing the bland look of the studios.

    The article would be much better without the editorial comments. I do not think it is necessary to beat the same stick over and over. Besides that parks attendance has been rising steadily and has surpassed the 7 million mark and i am sure that the addition of TOT helped.
    The attraction has such a high capacity that even when the park has reached high numbers the lines stay relatively short.

    looking forward to the third part. It is interesting to hear peoples reactions when artwork is posted on the internet.
    Last edited by Baloo; 06-14-2006 at 07:40 AM.

  5. #20

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Part III would make a good Thurday article.

    Though for some reason I was thinking this was III...

  6. #21

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Thanks for the article. It's interesting to see with what Disneyland Paris has to contend. But, I am disappointed that none of these capital improvements seem to address the fundamental conceptual flaw inhered by a studio tour where there is no actual studio. I'm also disheartened that, like Disney's California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Paris will still not complement The Magic Kingdom very well even after these expansions.

  7. #22

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    Talking Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    Thanks for the article. It's interesting to see with what Disneyland Paris has to contend. But, I am disappointed that none of these capital improvements seem to address the fundamental conceptual flaw inhered by a studio tour where there is no actual studio. I'm also disheartened that, like Disney's California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Paris will still not complement The Magic Kingdom very well even after these expansions.
    Don't forget the fundamental flaw of a runaway mine train traveling through a fake mine and the fundamental flaw of a rocket designed to fire you to the moon which doesn't actually fire you to the moon!

    I just don't get that comment, Theme parks are all about illusion, I don't see any reason why disney studios has to actually be a working studio! Thats just my opinion.

    Anyway thank you Peter for another Fantastic article, I really loved it and very much look forward to part 3 and hopefully also some kind of part 4 and 5! lol

    Thanks again.

  8. #23

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by yesitsme
    Don't forget the fundamental flaw of a runaway mine train traveling through a fake mine and the fundamental flaw of a rocket designed to fire you to the moon which doesn't actually fire you to the moon!

    I just don't get that comment, Theme parks are all about illusion, I don't see any reason why disney studios has to actually be a working studio! Thats just my opinion.
    Studios create fiction; they usually aren't the fiction, themselves.

    Studios make illusions; the facilities aren't the illusions, themselves.

    Walt Disney Studios Paris lacks authenticity, and that problem will plague the attraction for as long as the muddled concept remains the same. It's purely a theme of convenience, and my guess is that the main reason the park is failing is because the general public is smarter than Disney assumes.

    There is a big difference between creating fantastic, imaginary worlds and charging admission to a tour of a fake studio where no films have ever been shot.

    Perhaps, Europeans find film studios especially glamourous. British people certainly seem to love Universal Studios for some strange reason even though that actual working studio is seemingly more tourist trap than anything, now. As an American, though, I simply cannot understand the reason anyone would visit the even more glaring contrivance that Walt Disney Studios Paris is.

  9. #24

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    well I think we can all agree that at the moment the film studio concept is very badly executed at disney studios paris but that doesn't mean it won't or can't work given the righ changes and improvements. Your comments about authenticity still don't stand in my opinion, it doesn't have to be a working studio to look and feel authentic, as i said before, theme parks are about illusion and if only more effort and money had been put into this park in the first place we would not be having this conversation now.

    MGM studios is hugely popular with europeans so I see no reason why the concept can't work in Paris, eventually, even if it isn't a real working studio.

    I think the toon studios is a big step in the right dirrection and I hope very much that the 3 new attractions boost attendance enough to encourage all the other attractions and expansions that Peter hints about in his article.

  10. #25

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Well said, im sorry pragmaticidealist, but had you forgotten that the walt disney studios is infact a theme park, with the studios section being the theme?!

    Hence the Toon Studios? Yes there is the Studio Tram Tour, which tours a fictional section of a studio, but the majority of people visting do not go expecting an actual working studio. If it was, it would comprise of closed set, and very little interaction for the guest!

    Taking that further, apply you logic to all Disney parks with a theme, Africa in animal kingdom, certainly isnt really africa, just themed around it!!

    The reason for going is the theme, thats the attraction

  11. #26

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by yesitsme
    MGM studios is hugely popular with europeans so I see no reason why the concept can't work in Paris, eventually, even if it isn't a real working studio.
    The Disney MGM Studios was designed as a working motion picture and television production facility, and several films and television shows had been shot there before Disney decided that it needed to devote more real estate to the guest areas. So, the studio is real. It's just not being used very much at the moment.

    Walt Disney Imagineering needs to ask itself what the second gate in Paris is about and what they want to say there. At the moment, there is no definition or artistic purpose to the park. It exists for no other reason than to make money, and that's the reason it doesn't.
    Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 06-19-2006 at 01:13 AM.

  12. #27

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    It's so good to finally see this argument being raised! I think it strikes at the core of what the park really is, or should be.

    As much as I admire the plans for the original Disney/MGM Europe concept, it did rather seem a park of two halves. On the one hand, the idealised, fantasist vision of 1930's Hollywood, and on the other, the real life, modern day studios. While it would have been a great park, I've always felt it was a little schitzophrenic in its theme.

    The current Walt Disney Studios Park, for all its faults, isn't saddled with the problem of maintaining a working studio complex, so it's far freer to play with its central theme. I believe it should capitalise on this opportunity by following the lead set by the neighbouring Disneyland Park.

    As a few of you have laready pointed out, the lands of the Magic Kingdom parks are not supposed to be "the real thing" but representations of popular themes and settings. Medieval France never looked like Fantasyland after all, and it's doubtful that Captains Morgan and Bartholomew would have recognised anything of the Caribbean in Adventureland. But then, that was never the point. Disney aren't trying to give us reality, they're giving us a carefully constructed fantasy, based on our ideas and preconceptions of what that reality should be.

    I think the best way forward for the Studios is to turn it into a larger than life characature of a classic 1930's studio - make the Backlot a bustling, action packed area, full of flashing lights, sparking special effects, smoke, wind machines, etc. Toon Studios is already promising a huge leap in the right direction with its more whimsical, artistic placemaking.

    Let's wait and see if Disney go the whole hog with this.

  13. #28

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    The Disney MGM Studios was designed as a working motion picture and television production facility, and several films and television shows had been shot there before Disney decided that it needed to devote more real estate to the guest areas. So, the studio is real. It's just not being used very much at the moment.
    I know this. I don't think I suggested otherwise. What you have to ask is do the guests who visit MGM Studios care whether the park is a working studio or do they just want to actually live the movies through amazing movie based attractions? Would MGM Studios fail as a park if it never made another tv programme or film? I doubt it. The concept works well, it has just been very poorly executed in Paris.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    Walt Disney Imagineering needs to ask itself what the second gate in Paris is about and what they want to say there.
    I couldn't agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    At the moment, there is no definition or artistic purpose to the park. It exists for no other reason than to make money, and that's the reason it doesn't.
    Every theme park exists for no other reason other than to make money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Bell
    I think the best way forward for the Studios is to turn it into a larger than life characature of a classic 1930's studio - make the Backlot a bustling, action packed area, full of flashing lights, sparking special effects, smoke, wind machines, etc. Toon Studios is already promising a huge leap in the right direction with its more whimsical, artistic placemaking.
    I agree. It certainly sounds like the imagineers have realised what is needed.

  14. #29

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by yesitsme
    I know this. I don't think I suggested otherwise. What you have to ask is do the guests who visit MGM Studios care whether the park is a working studio or do they just want to actually live the movies through amazing movie based attractions? Would MGM Studios fail as a park if it never made another tv programme or film? I doubt it. The concept works well, it has just been very poorly executed in Paris.
    Having recently returned from a first visit to DSP, I can wholeheartedly agree with this point.

    The theme, much like with DCA, is not the problem with this park at all. It's the flawed, half-assed way Disney executed the theme. The park screams "built on the cheap so we don't lose the land" and is, frankly, embarassing because it makes DCA look great by comparison.

    Also, before I go to far, please remember that Disney-MGM Studios is a studio in name only. The only actual taping I can think of that's happened there recently was a concert taped during Super Soap Weekend that was than aired on ABC's All My Chilldren last year. And a week's episodes of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire in January. Sorry, that doesn't make the place a working studio. It lost all claim to that when Feature Animation Florida was shut down by Eisner and Co.

    Anyway, DSP is such a flawed concept I don't even know where to begin. I truly think this kind of park would have been perfect as a regional entertainment venture (like DisneyQuest or Club Disney or ESPN Zone ... albeit on a larger scale) in places like Philadelphia, St. Louis, London, Toronto etc ...If it were all weatherized (almost everything's indoors as is), it could work as a place for people to spend 4-6 hours. But as a second gate, sitting next to the most detailed, modern MK of them all, it was bound to be a huge failure. That someone in a position like Jay Rasulo thought otherwise speaks volumes about his qualifications for his position.

    It's not that what's there is awful. It's more that there's almost nothing there to begin with. Cinemagique is wonderful, but not in Disney's all-time best. Armageddon is Universal's Backdraft. RnRC is a (slightly) better version of a mediocre ride from Florida. ... there's just nothing there. Heck, the park doesn't even have a full-serve dining location because they know people want to get the hell out of there as soon as they arrive.

    The sad thing is Disney seems to think the Tower of Terror is going to be the silver bullet to save the park. Yeah, sure it will. Just like it did for DCA.
    Toon Studios will help, but isn't large enough or significant enough to be a real draw for people beyond locals with APs. Finally, adding a tired, lousy parade from MGM (Stars and Motor Cars) for 2007 is a terrible decision.

    The original Disney-MGM Studios Europe that was supposed to be open by 1995 or 96 would have been a true draw because, like DLP, money wasn't going to be spared. Disney was going to build a second-generation Studios park that plussed what they had accomplished in Orlando. Sadly, they overbuilt hotels, misread the local culture and appetite for spending and the place has been under huge debt since.

    But much like DLP pulls in huge numbers of guests because it offers a quality product, Disney-MGM Europe would have done likewise.

    DSP is just a poorly conceived, poorly built, poorly managed little park. Sure, I can enjoy a few hours there. But it lacks so much. Most assuredly it lacks Disney magic.

  15. #30

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    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    The theme, much like with DCA, is not the problem with this park at all.
    If I may step in, I'd argue that DCA is plauged with a stupid theme, and WDSP is plauged with a stupid budget. DCA did have quite a reasonable budget, but it was squandered in all the wrong directions from tortilla factories to space shot rides.

    WDSP has a great theme to work on and is a wreck because they spared all expense.

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