Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 38 of 38
  1. #31

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,357

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Would someone like to define the concept of Walt Disney Studios Paris and how it relates to Walt Disney and to Disneyland?

    I would not have wanted Disney MGM Studios Europe, either, even if it did have motion picture and television production.

    The idea for this park was borne from Disney copying Universal Studios, instead of from W.D.I. and Disney management actually imagining something original. This process, the antithesis of creativity, stands in stark contrast to the founding principles of The Walt Disney Company and the original Disneyland, itself.

    Furthermore, the Universal Studios nature of the second gate does not and will never complement The Magic Kingdom.

    Slapping a bunch of unrelated attractions together and connecting them only by way of a vague "movie studio" motif is an insult to the genius of Mr. Disney and his associates. Exercising a little imagination in order to rethink the concept is essential to the second gate finding any success. And, I'm sure as more and more of these initiatives are completed and as the park remains a haphazard collection of pointless experiences, the results will show this assertion to be true.

  2. #32

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,035

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    If I may step in, I'd argue that DCA is plauged with a stupid theme, and WDSP is plauged with a stupid budget. DCA did have quite a reasonable budget, but it was squandered in all the wrong directions from tortilla factories to space shot rides.

    WDSP has a great theme to work on and is a wreck because they spared all expense.
    I'd argue right back at you, buddy.

    DCA's theme isn't inherently 'stupid' ... its execution is. California leaves open all sorts of possibilities for rides, shows, entertainment and dining. Sadly, DCA ignores most of them.

    And DCA's budget, while not as tiny as DSP's, still was paltry for a new park. Especially when you consider that a lot of the total spent went to ripping up a parking lot, building a garage and infrastructure and constructing a luxury hotel and DD.

    DCA is a poor park in many ways. But it is not a mini-park. DSP is.

  3. #33

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,035

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    Would someone like to define the concept of Walt Disney Studios Paris and how it relates to Walt Disney and to Disneyland?

    I would not have wanted Disney MGM Studios Europe, either, even if it did have motion picture and television production.

    The idea for this park was borne from Disney copying Universal Studios, instead of from W.D.I. and Disney management actually imagining something original. This process, the antithesis of creativity, stands in stark contrast to the founding principles of The Walt Disney Company and the original Disneyland, itself.

    Furthermore, the Universal Studios nature of the second gate does not and will never complement The Magic Kingdom.

    Slapping a bunch of unrelated attractions together and connecting them only by way of a vague "movie studio" motif is an insult to the genius of Mr. Disney and his associates. Exercising a little imagination in order to rethink the concept is essential to the second gate finding any success. And, I'm sure as more and more of these initiatives are completed and as the park remains a haphazard collection of pointless experiences, the results will show this assertion to be true.
    Considering that Walt Disney built his career on creative endeavors in movies, animation and television, I can't see how you (or anyone) would say a Studio-themed park is an 'insult' to his genius. One could turn that around and say it's an homage to his brilliance.

    And may I remind you that Walt's original park idea before DL was for a park near the Burbank studios that took people thru movie sets as part of the experience.

    I never see a valid comparison with Universal Studios Hollywood because it is a movie studio first and foremost with a small theme park added on.

    Disney's studio parks are ostensibly themed to the entertainment genres, but are in no way working facilities.

  4. #34

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,357

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Is Rockin' Rollercoaster, "Lights! Moteurs! Action!", or The Twilight Zone an homage to Walt Disney's brilliance, or are they desperate attempts by clueless Disney executives to imitate Universal Studios?

    What about the backlot tour or the Armageddon attraction?

    Walt Disney's original idea for guests to be able to tour the Buena Vista Street studios was and still is a good idea, but the "magical little park" next door was never going to be filled with a bunch of stucco soundstages where guests would "ride the movies". That way of thinking is the Universal mindset with which Universal executives tried to make their studio tour into more of an amusement park because they wanted to draw more repeat visitors and more southern California residents.

    I'm sorry, but I don't want to ride the movies. I will go to a cinema if I want to watch a movie, and I will go to Disneyland if I want to live a story. Where does Walt Disney Studios Paris fit in this equation?

    It's not a real studio.

    It's not a theme park, in the Disneyland sense of the term.

    It's a Universal Studios knock-off with its own backlot tour, special-effects show, and stunt show. The Universal Studios idea of riding the movies is contrived enough, but to see The Walt Disney Company copying that concept and employing it in a park where there isn't even a working studio is just asinine.
    Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 06-22-2006 at 04:18 PM.

  5. #35

    • No honestly it is me
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    95

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    I'm sorry, but I don't want to ride the movies. I will go to a cinema if I want to watch a movie, and I will go to Disneyland if I want to live a story. Where does Walt Disney Studios Paris fit in this equation?

    It's not a real studio.
    Well obviously 7 million+ people a year do want to ride the movies as well as go to the cinema or MGM studios would not be the sucessfull park it is today.

    As I said before - Disney studios is a terribly executed concept but MGM studios proves that the concept does work if it's done right.

    I really don't understand why you keep mentioning that it's not a real studio, it really doesn't have to be!

    Nice to have an adult non flaming discussion on it though!

  6. #36

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,035

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    Is Rockin' Rollercoaster, "Lights! Moteurs! Action!", or The Twilight Zone an homage to Walt Disney's brilliance, or are they desperate attempts by clueless Disney executives to imitate Universal Studios?
    Look, I am not one to defend 'clueless Disney' execs. Bash them maybe, but defend them? No way.

    Those attractions are what they are. One is a decent rolley coaster. One is a very overrated stunt show. One is a great themed drop ride.

    If you're looking at every attraction in Disney parks to somehow reflect a man -- a great man but a human being -- who's been dead longer than most of the people here have been alive, you're asking the impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    What about the backlot tour or the Armageddon attraction?
    Walt Disney's original idea for guests to be able to tour the Buena Vista Street studios was and still is a good idea, but the "magical little park" next door was never going to be filled with a bunch of stucco soundstages where guests would "ride the movies". That way of thinking is the Universal mindset with which Universal executives tried to make their studio tour into more of a amusement park because they wanted to draw more repeat visitors and more southern California residents. [/quote]

    Universal Hollywood makes money from making motion pictures and television shows first and foremost. The theme park part is a little icing on the cake.

    The mindset behind DSP and every second, third and fourth gates built at Disney sites worldwide is to simply get people to extend their stays. Period. They want all parks to be part of multi-day resort stays with guests eating at Disney restaurants, sleeping in Disney beds and spending all their dollars on Mouse products and services.

    I don't have any problem with that mindset when parks built are wonderful and can stand on their own like EPCOT Center or Tokyo DisneySea ... or even DAK.

    When the second gates are parks built on the cheap, it cheapens the company.



    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    I'm sorry, but I don't want to ride the movies. I will go to a cinema if I want to watch a movie, and I will go to Disneyland if I want to live a story. Where does Walt Disney Studios Paris fit in this equation?

    It's not a real studio.

    It's not a theme park, in the Disneyland sense of the term.

    It's a Universal Studios knock-off with its own backlot tour, special-effects show, and stunt show. The Universal Studios idea of riding the movies is contrived enough, but to see The Walt Disney Company copying that concept and employing it in a park where there isn't even a working studio is just asinine.
    If you have a fundamental issue with the idea of a theme park based around the entertainment genres, nothing I say will make a difference. I think it's a wonderful theme that harkens back to how Walt Disney got his start -- it wasn't in the theme park business, but as an amazing showman.

    There's nothing contrived at all about a park built around the movies and TV. Disney-MGM, when it opened in 1989 as a cohesive product with working studio facilities, was a wonderful park. It has since been very much watered down, but still has charm.

    The question you need to ask yourself is 'Can anything equal or surpass or come close to equaling a DL experience in a non-MK type park?'

    I know it can.

    If all you want from Disney is a MK, anything else will disappoint.

  7. #37

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,357

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    If all you want from Disney is a MK, anything else will disappoint.
    I just want a sound concept that shows imagination and that complements The Magic Kingdom.

    Walt Disney Studios Paris is an imitation of Universal Studios. This fact is bad enough, but, whereas Universal Studios began as a working studio where a tour was, then, later added more than 80 years ago, Walt Disney Studios Paris began its life as a fake tour and an insult to the intelligence of the people who visited the place.

    Most of the thinking for the attractions at the Disney park arose from the company looking at Universal Studios for inspiration. Universal Studios, itself, though, was desperate to redefine itself as more than just a studio tour. So, from that awkward position, Universal adopted the "ride-the-movies" idea. Disney, then, not knowing what to do, simply copied the "ride-the-movies" contrivance in order to justify sticking attractions in plain stucco soundstages and in not having any of the attractions relate to each other. At Walt Disney Studios Paris, nothing is explained, and nothing is clear. The park is an outright rejection of the design principles, which Walt Disney Imagineering upheld for almost half a century.

    The Disney MGM Studios began its life as a very imaginative addition to the vacations of Walt Disney World guests. The idea arose from a confluence of forces: The Great Movie Ride concept developed originally for EPCOT; the increased demand for additional facilities to produce both live-action and animated films and television shows; the original idea Walt Disney had for guests to be able to visit the Burbank lot; and, the parasitic entry of Universal Studios into the region.

    The Disney MGM Studios was intended to be a dream factory where Disney productions would be made and where the millions of Walt Disney World guests could get a glimpse of that work and understand Disney's creative process better. The studios were also a chance for guests to better appreciate that medium, and the various Disney and Old Hollywood classics that made it great. In addition, the park, then, celebrated the culture surrounding the medium by envisioning a Hollywood that never existed and yet always would in our minds.

    The Disney MGM Studios really does not work without the animation studio and the other film and television production, and many people do complain about the lack of cohesiveness to the experience, now. Attendance has suffered as a result despite significant reinvestment and capital improvements. The reasons the park has not lost more probably stem from the fact that Walt Disney World sells vacation plans and "Park Hopper" multi-day admission media, as well as the fact that some people may be unaware that most of the working production facilities are now defunct due to Eisner's mismanagement and to the demands for the park to quickly increase guest capacity in the 1990's.
    Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 06-22-2006 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #38

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,035

    Re: 6/13: A Tale of Two Studios, Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
    I just want a sound concept that shows imagination and that complements The Magic Kingdom.

    Walt Disney Studios Paris is an imitation of Universal Studios. This fact is bad enough, but, whereas Universal Studios began as a working studio where a tour was, then, later added more than 80 years ago, Walt Disney Studios Paris began its life as a fake tour and an insult to the intelligence of the people who visited the place.

    Most of the thinking for the attractions at the Disney park arose from the company looking at Universal Studios for inspiration. Universal Studios, itself, though, was desperate to redefine itself as more than just a studio tour. So, from that awkward position, Universal adopted the "ride-the-movies" idea. Disney, then, not knowing what to do, simply copied the "ride-the-movies" contrivance in order to justify sticking attractions in plain stucco soundstages and in not having any of the attractions relate to each other. At Walt Disney Studios Paris, nothing is explained, and nothing is clear. The park is an outright rejection of the design principles, which Walt Disney Imagineering upheld for almost half a century.

    The Disney MGM Studios began its life as a very imaginative addition to the vacations of Walt Disney World guests. The idea arose from a confluence of forces: The Great Movie Ride concept developed originally for EPCOT; the increased demand for additional facilities to produce both live-action and animated films and television shows; the original idea Walt Disney had for guests to be able to visit the Burbank lot; and, the parasitic entry of Universal Studios into the region.

    The Disney MGM Studios was intended to be a dream factory where Disney productions would be made and where the millions of Walt Disney World guests could get a glimpse of that work and understand Disney's creative process better. The studios were also a chance for guests to better appreciate that medium, and the various Disney and Old Hollywood classics that made it great. In addition, the park, then, celebrated the culture surrounding the medium by envisioning a Hollywood that never existed and yet always would in our minds.

    The Disney MGM Studios really does not work without the animation studio and the other film and television production, and many people do complain about the lack of cohesiveness to the experience, now. Attendance has suffered as a result despite significant reinvestment and capital improvements. The reasons the park has not lost more probably stem from the fact that Walt Disney World sells vacation plans and "Park Hopper" multi-day admission media, as well as the fact that some people may be unaware that most of the working production facilities are now defunct due to Eisner's mismanagement and to the demands for the park to quickly increase guest capacity in the 1990's.
    I can only say I agree with much of what you write, although I still have no fundamental problem with the concept of DSP, just the execution.

    I also feel Disney-MGM has been watered down so much that, even though it is much larger now, it is a shell of its former greatness. The park jumped the shark when the Big A$$ HAt was added and was completely destroyed when FAF was shuttered after producing nothing but hits for TWDC. It is the park I spend the least amount of time in of all the American parks, and often skip it entirely on visits.

    The only other thing I would say is I sense an antipathy toward Universal that I don't share. They do a good job with their park/tour in Hollywood and their parks in Orlando, which are better maintained than Disney's. I don't have a deep affection for them, but I do enjoy them.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. My Florida Trip Report ~ Part 1 ~ Hollywood Studios
    By ~*~Aniko~*~ in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-30-2008, 05:03 AM
  2. 7/18: A Tale of Two Studios, Part III
    By Al Lutz in forum MiceAge Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-22-2006, 03:30 PM
  3. 5/25: A Tale of Two Studios, Part I
    By Al Lutz in forum MiceAge Discussions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 06-07-2006, 09:55 AM
  4. Disney's Fairy Tale Wedding Report Part 2
    By love0715 in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-03-2006, 04:52 AM
  5. Our Fairy Tale Wedding - part 1
    By love0715 in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-23-2006, 02:16 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •