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  1. #46

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by kodydog View Post
    The DDP has effectively ruined the restaurant reputations at WDW. As apassholder, I would love to visit a restaurant now and then, especially some of them that have become so well known. Last time I did eat at Coral Reef, once a top-tier restaurant, it was packed with crying babies, fat belly tube tops and all others who generally would not dine there had it not been for the DDP. I was taking out of town family and was embarrassed to say the least. Until that is fixed, I'll keep my disney dining limited to fast service. It really is a shame.
    Wow, that sounds so nasty. Man, I'm starting to get pessimistic about this trip.

  2. #47

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    What are you talking about? We've been visting WDW for over 25 years and we've always made our dinner reservations in advance.. well in advance. And we had dining plans as well.. through the Magic Kingdom Club (where you had credit cards to use.. and well before any 'points' system).

    Sorry, going to WDW includes planning.. and that includes ADR. That has always been the case since I first went in the late seventies.
    Yes yes, my family did that too. Magic Kingdom Club, "Gold Key Card" vacation where all meals were included and you could eat in any restaurant (who remembers "The Top of the World" and the "Gulf Coast Room" at the Contemporary with the strolling violinist?), just show them the card, none of this silly points crap. But those days are gone, and the difference between then and now was that that benefit was only available to MKC members and nobody else. The way it is now, as Kevin describes in his article, well, it just sucks.

    P.S. The Gulf Coast Room gave my dad matchbooks with his name embossed in gold color on them. They had them made!

  3. #48

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Someone explain a good reason NOT to use fastpass?
    Because it kills the experience.



    The whole 'lines are longer' is all perspective. Before FP.. hour+ waits for rides were practically the norm for rides, so why are people complaining about them now? The fact is using FP you can do more. Last I checked.. waiting 60 mins in line for any ride was NOT fun. Why would I want to do that everywhere?
    I think you need to re-do your math there
    Ad luna in flamma gloria

  4. #49

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by aerinpegadrak View Post
    Y'all should read Waiter Rant. It's a blog written by a guy who was, up until recently, head waiter at a very upscale New York restaurant. One of the things he mentions frequently is how much he hates people who show up at 8:00 on a Saturday night with no reservation and expect a table. Out in the rest of the world, if you want to eat somewhere nice, you make a reservation, or hope your karma is good enough to get a walk-in with a wait that's not ridiculous. Why should Disney World be any different? At least at Disney World, if you're told that it will be an hour before your table is ready, you have something better to do than sit in front of Cheesecake Factory and wait.
    Big difference between "a very upscale New York restaurant" and most WDW eateries. We aren't talking about the California Grill or Victoria & Alberts in over 90% of the situation.

    I can't understand how WDW can have the population of a whole city each night of the world, and a city that's largely captive and unable to leave, and is able to shut down as much as they have by dinnertime. Is there some money to be made in nearly driving people off-property?

  5. #50

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Big difference between "a very upscale New York restaurant" and most WDW eateries. We aren't talking about the California Grill or Victoria & Alberts in over 90% of the situation.
    True, but come 7:00 on a Friday, you're going to be running into the same problem at T.G.I. Friday's and Applebee's that you'll encounter at the swankiest of swankified restaurants. Granted, it's usually easier to get a table at less expensive places, but during a busy time (since most people, strangely enough, get the urge to eat at just around the same time of day) you're still going to encounter lengthy waits for a table no matter where you go.

    Cinderella IV: The Bloodening

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  6. #51

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by ralfrick View Post
    "Foremost among them is the problem that anyone who elects NOT to use the system is getting the short end of the stick—they wait in longer lines (the standby lines) than would have been the case in a world that had no FastPass"

    I'm tired of hearing this nonsense. The posted stand-by waits for Space and Splash are pretty much what I waited pre-FP. The typical stand-by wait for Peter Pan in WDW is the same as the wait for PP in DL, which has no FP. If you elect (i.e. choose) not to use the system and don't like long waits, you are simply a fool. A lot of people wait 1-2 hours to enter the Louvre instead of buying a Paris Museum Pass and avoiding the wait. Tough luck for them, boo-hoo-hoo and I don't care. This information is freely available to all, and it's your fault if you don't seek it out

    "
    My point has always been that the parks need to cater to everyone..."
    AND
    "I prefer that the deck be stacked in favor of tourists and visitors."

    If the problem with those two statements isn't immediately obvious, I respectfully suggest that you avoid driving today.

    A bientot.

    Why does FastPass even need to exist? I say, abolish that system tomorrow. As well as DDP.

    They reason why fastpass sucks is that you have to enter the park and then zip around hodge podge collecting your passes. You can't just stroll around and enjoy attractions spontaneously as you come to them. I'd prefer the latter rather than the former.
    Last edited by NickCharles; 02-14-2007 at 05:43 AM.

  7. #52

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    Question Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Hello-- I enjoy reading the great WDW stuff here. I'm curious about a dining option that my family and friends used to frequently enjoy at WDW: picnicking. It looks like it's still okay to bring food and drinks from outside WDW into the parks? (see below, from http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw...meParkPage#q13)?

    A. Items that you may not bring into the Theme Parks include, but are not limited to:
    • Items with wheels, such as wagons, skateboards, scooters, inline skates, shoes with built-in wheels, two-wheeled or three-wheeled conveyances, strollers larger than 36" x 52", suitcases, coolers, or backpacks with or without wheels larger than 24" long x 15" wide x 18" high (coolers required for medication may be stored in a locker or at Guest Relations), and any trailer-like object that is pushed or towed by an ECV wheelchair or stroller
    • Alcoholic beverages
    • Weapons of any kind
    • Folding chairs
    • Glass containers (excluding baby food jars and perfume bottles)
    • Pets (unless they are service animals)
    • In Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park (for the safety of the wildlife), balloons, straws and drink lids are not permitted.
    "So then I finally did the Walt Disney thing....this way I can show the cosmic forces that there have been some people who came this way who were very nice. Because if they look at the world the way it is today, they could actually come and destroy people, because they say, "They're not intellectually proper." But if I put up Fletcher Henderson or Walt Disney, it's a shield of beauty."
    --Sun Ra

  8. #53

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by NickCharles View Post
    They reason why fastpass sucks is that you have to enter the park and then zip around hodge podge collecting your passes. You can't just stroll around and enjoy attractions spontaneously as you come to them.
    I think people are inflicted with a sense of revisionist history if they think that they could ride any ride in the past as they came to it without a wait. You ALWAYS had a long line at Space Mountain (unless you got there first thing in the morning), you ALWAYS had a long line at Splash and Big Thunder and the Jungle Cruise. Even with FP you don't need to do any zipping around hodge podge at all. You just get a Space Mtn pass as you walk by the attraction, and then go see Stitch or ride the People Mover. It's really no different than it used to be, except you now don't have to wait in the long Space Mtn line. Works for me!

  9. #54

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Is that really that hard to see that the only time-advantage anyone can have with fastpass means that someone else is being disadvantaged?
    Ad luna in flamma gloria

  10. #55

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Which brings me right back to post #12
    Kevin Yee
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    I am the author of several Disney books:
    Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
    Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
    Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
    Mouse Trap
    Tokyo Disney Made Easy
    101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
    Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

    “The press [should be] a watchdog. Not an attack dog. Not a lapdog. A watchdog. Now, a watchdog can't be right all the time. He doesn't bark only when he sees or smells something that's dangerous. A good watchdog barks at things that are suspicious.” – Dan Rather

  11. #56

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
    Is that really that hard to see that the only time-advantage anyone can have with fastpass means that someone else is being disadvantaged?
    As long as the advantages are equally available to all, I can live with it.

  12. #57

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    WDW never had a reservation system, perse for dining in the 1970s, with the exception of dinner shows and a few high end locales.

    The whole concept, at least for theme park locales, didn't exist until EPCOT Center opened in 1982. And those were only day of, or for APers, two days out. I know that for a fact. And while some MKC packages (like the ones you went on) may have allowed for reservations at restaurants by setting aside tables (I'm honestly not familar enough with them to speak), they were a TINY portion of guests on any given day if just for the small resort inventory plus the fact most guests weren't on packages.

    So, if you're going to say that anyone could pick up a phone and book dinner at King Stephan's a month in advance in 1980, I'm just (as nicely as possible) going to say you're mistaken.
    Don't know.. we always used Magic Kingdom Club until probably my trip in 1990. I'm not saying we did 6 months out.. but planning has always been part of our disney trips.

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974 View Post
    As someone who spent weeks a year at WDW in the 70s, 80s and 90s, I can tell you that PS's as a concept weren't needed until the mid-late 90s (except during holidays and the most popular locations).
    But WDW is also MUCH bigger now and with many more hotel rooms. Not a fair comparison.

    Off the top of my head, locations with strict dress codes (i.e. coat and ties for men, dresses for women) included the Gulf Coast Room and Top of the World for dinner at the Contemporary, Empress Lilly (at least two locations including the Empress Room), Lake Buena Vista Club (less strict, I believe) ...
    Sans LBV (I hated that area as a kid ).. I never recall dressing up for those locations. I seem to recall top of the world being different, but as a child I certainly didn't put on a tie Too far back for me to remember specifics.

    I'm going to assume you're not being combative and are just illustrating that it isn't always difficult to book what you want.
    Correct. I'm giving a real world example. I literally booked last friday..3 nights at Pop Century.. including ADRs for Dinner at France for 7pm and Obana at Poly for 7:40pm. First try.. first call.

    Well, I agree with you. Sometimes you can call and get what you want ... of course, you're still calling a month in advance. That's not my point. And it doesn't mean 'the system works! yeah!'
    I don't consider less then 3 weeks in advance excessive for WDW. In fact, I'd argue to assume anything less is ignorance of the situational requirements. I don't have any issue with making reservations far in advance.. I have more issues with what you get once you get there.

    I can, for example, almost always snag a reservation at California Grill the week I want to dine there ... how? Simple because I know that they'll always have 9:50 p.m. (and usually as early as 9:20) available. But if I want 7:30 (my preferred dinner time), I know I'm outta luck.
    My example above.. 7pm and 7:40pm.. 3 weeks in advance. I don't consider that excessive or having to take D-rated time slots.

    Some people, especially locals and people who aren't WDW regulars, can't/won't/don't know about doing so and to get to Epcot and be told that EVERY table service restaurant is booked except ... we can get you into Germany at 8:50 tonight ... well, that's not kewl and it's not smart business.
    Well if people want to take multi-thousand dollar vacations and don't do any research into where they are going ahead.. I have little sympathy for them.

    That's because Disney overbooks and understaffs. It's also the inherent problem in having PS and not real reservations where tables are set aside for YOU. They used to do that ... way back in the 80s.

    And the lack of diversity is simply a byproduct of the Dining Plan. It's only going to get worse the more popular it becomes. Once Disney has your money in advance, it has zero motivation to provide you with 12 quality/ unique entree options when the 'same six' will do.

    I agree that the Dining Plan (especially if they continue to use it as a promo component) will commoditize the menus. That would be my complaint. I also think they should continue to expand the # of food outlets. Look at how much dining there is at say Ecpot.. compared to say AK... or lesser extent MGM. Disney needs to increase the number of food places to handle their crowd volumes. I don't blame this as much on the Dining Plan, as I do on simply increased volume and number of guests.

    Volumes and commoditizing are whats hurting Disney Dining.. not the Dining plan alone. These problems existed before the free DDP promos of last year.

    And I'm sorry, the complaint about the check binder is.. beyond words I want to post here.

  13. #58

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    And I'm sorry, the complaint about the check binder is.. beyond words I want to post here.
    I have to agree with you there. If my Disney experience is going to be negatively influenced because I didn't get my bill in a customized Chefs de France folder, then I'm getting WAY too sensitive!!!

    I'm usually right on the same page as Kevin, but this one just seems a bit petty.

  14. #59

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
    Is that really that hard to see that the only time-advantage anyone can have with fastpass means that someone else is being disadvantaged?
    Fastpass is about distributing load.

    If you put 2000 people in line at once.. you get a backup. Put them in 50 people at a time.. you get smooth sailing. This is why enforcement of the return window is critical.

    No one is being disadvantaged except those who refuse to use the system at all. Without the system, the person with a FP would simply be in line in front of you. People conviently forget that everyone who passed you standing in the standby line in the FP line.. got there BEFORE you.

    Its 90% bitterness about waiting in line while watching someone else walk by you. The queue lines were always hour+ well before FP.

  15. #60

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    Re: 2/13: FastPass the Rolls Please

    Quote Originally Posted by NickCharles View Post
    They reason why fastpass sucks is that you have to enter the park and then zip around hodge podge collecting your passes. You can't just stroll around and enjoy attractions spontaneously as you come to them. I'd prefer the latter rather than the former.
    You don't have to do that at all.. that's your CHOICE because you are trying to beat the system.

    Simply pick up a pass and return later. No zipping around the park because you can't get them back to back anyways. Only those people trying to take advanage of the leiency of Disney by ignoring their return lines hold more then 2 FPs at a time. With the 1-2hr wait time before you pickup another FP.. how many FPs you can get is obviously limited by time. The FP return time is virtually never shorter then 40mins from the ticket issue time.

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