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  1. #16

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    Attendance figures

    I always find it shocking, that for how much the people who post "columns" on here about how much DCA sucks, it's in the top ten of all parks in the Americas.

    A quick internet search states it is indeed the six flags company who has purchased the land of which Kevin speaks.



    Thomas
    "Decisions are easy, if you know what your values are" - Roy Disney

  2. #17

    • A Real Disney Attraction
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    It looks like most of the stuff has been covered - - and askmike brings up an excellent point. I think there is a large conflict between saying, [to paraphrase] A) MGM needs a lot of work and B) A fifth gate will be needed if "x" occurs and such an action will be welcomed.

    A LOT of things need to be addressed before a fifth gate can be built, and more importantly, operated. Where are they going to get bodies to staff a fifth gate? A fifth gate is only going to hurt investment in, and further restrict the operations of, the other parks. Half of Fantasyland, along with Toontown & Speedway need a complete new master-plan. Future World is still in shambles, IMO. While I disagree with a lot of Kevin's bullet-points, his overall consensus is in-line with reality. About 70% of MGM needs a complete rework. AK needs phase III, even after EE. AK still pails in comparison to Busch or Sea World when it comes to activities. Get some pandas in Asia, build Australia. Throw some more thrill rides around. Maybe a bus-bar dark ride too.

    Cold feet should = Six Flags. They have finally realized (through some vocal shareholders) to focus heavily on California, Chicago & New Jersey. Which they should be doing. Six Flags is in such bad shape I can't imagine them being able to have a phase I or even phase II of an Orlando park that could warrant Disney to build their own "IOA". Finally, building a large capacity complex in Northern Fantasyland would be more than enough to fend off a transplanted assortment of Vekoma SLCs and Huss Flats.

    If it is Cedar Fair, the threat is more real, but far from initiating a 1.5 billion dollar Disney capital project. I don't see Cedar Fair wanting to build a year-round park in a year-round market, they have enough stresses with Knotts.

    Towards the article:

    I think Kevin interjected too much volatility with his interpretation of MGM's history. MGM was hardly a fully operational studio. It never really had much going for it. Unless The New Let's Make A Deal counts (j/k). A lot of the actual production stuff was never even transparent to the guest. How many times did you walk through the upper window hallway to look down on the lotto ticket(?)'s set sitting dormant.

    MGM's loss in this area came about at the same time as MGM was gaining popularity. Which leads to problem #2. They built ToT to anchor a corridor of future attractions that never materialized. In part, because you got it, they wanted a fourth gate and another waterpark! So upon adding RnRC, they gave guests a one-stop area in the front of the park to hit the marquee rides. In any other themepark, those rides would be in the back of the park, opposite the entrance. Now the back portion of MGM is vacant and they have nothing to draw people into the park. In my minority opinion I don't think the new stunt show will accomplish this for more then maybe these next 18 months. But I give Disney a B for effort.

    >>>That hat indicates a desire to skew the park’s message more toward Disney animation, a move bolstered by the revised Animation building, the presence of a Little Mermaid attraction, and dedicated character greeting areas that dot the streetscape near the Backlot Tour<<<

    Little Mermaid has been there for over 10 years. They definitely have shifted in making the park more kid appealing and more identifiable to the animated properties, but, it hasn't been with the attraction additions. Playhouse Disney replaced the Bear Show too. Muppets and HISTK playground was added early on as well. This isn't anything new.

    I guess my point is that there really hasn't been these up shifts and down shifts. The park has always been fumbling for a coherent identity - Ever since they opened up a lot of the tram tour areas, e.g. New York Street. The park has always been a potpourri of activities and it now is simply suffering from it's current line-up's age. I mean Sounds Dangerous anyone? Yes, animation was a bad hit, but not big enough to get people to stop visiting the park on a per trip basis.

    The park was the beginning of the Disney trend of equating equal entertainment values between ride attractions and show attractions. Now, the park needs more ride attractions, as does DCA, because every 12 year old knows that rides have a higher level of repeatability. Like I said, these problems have been inherent with MGM for years and years. Indy Stunt show? Beauty and the Beast?

    Instead of building a 5th gate, put a thrill ride at Indy's space, put 2 thrill rides in the back of the park, and then put another one near the soundstages/side of RnRC.

    Bam - a brand new park that can compete with the IOAs of the world. Hopefully, potential MGM additions would have better designs that would support a strong narrative adventure.
    Last edited by ChiMike; 06-09-2005 at 08:38 PM. Reason: My poor grammar - I'm sure it's still bad
    -Mike

  3. #18

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    I just wanted to say...great article, Kevin, one of your best!

  4. #19

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    Kevin, I appreciate your criticisms of Disney/MGM...But I disagree about it's theme and potential. As someone mentioned earlier, every park should be different. The "soundstage" look of movie sets is exactly what I like about the park. It would also seem to me that almost any studio would be chomping at the bit to be in bed with Disney. IMHO, this park could be used to indoctrinate generations toward whatever brand of entertainment said company has...

    The loss of real animators or any kind of real production is lamentable.

  5. #20

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    SO...if thier were a 5th park, what would your ideal theme be?


  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDSTOM
    I always find it shocking, that for how much the people who post "columns" on here about how much DCA sucks, it's in the top ten of all parks in the Americas.
    The price is right (free add-on with a DL AP, a few hours off one day of a multi-day parkhopper, "buy DL ticket, get a day at DCA for free," etc.) for a majority of the guests.

    And it's still less than half the attendance of DL.

    Compare to TDS, built around the same time, built right next door to the former #1 attended park in the world.
    Why is TDL the former #1 attended park in the world? Why is TDL now behind DL in park attendance?
    Why is it that 4 million fewer people went to TDL in 2004 than did in 2001, while 1 million MORE people went to ODL ("original") in 2004 than in 2001?
    DCA is not the park that the public expects from Disney. Therefore, it sucks.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  7. #22

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    Yes. Disney Sea was E-ticket laden from the onset, and even it's smaller scale attractions are unique and popular. Plus, there is motion everywhere - boats, an electric railway and little cars. Add to that the ongoing addition of elaborate new rides and shows (aon land and water), and you can see there is no comparison between it and DCA - a park that most everyone abreviates because they don't like the name. California deserves a much better park.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbkonczak
    SO...if there were a 5th park, what would your ideal theme be?
    A "sports" park, "villains" park, or a stateside Disney Sea are some of the most prominent rumors. While the first two are probably not broad enough potential themes to lend themselves to a full fledged park, they would make for good components or "lands". Now Disney Sea...I think this would appeal to most everyone.

    In fact, when the Dineyland Resort builds it's third theme park in a few years, I hope it will be a cross between EPCOT and Disney Sea - Wes-COT.
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 06-11-2005 at 07:13 AM.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior
    DCA-a park that most everyone abreviates because they don't like the name.
    Unless someone is doing a formal paper, they almost always abrieviate everything. MK DL DCA EP MGM DAK/AK TDS TDL DLP WDSP IASW HISTA WWTBAMPI (which I think is the worst abbreviation ever) SM DQ LMA TT ToT RnRC GMR M:S F! and OKW to name a few.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Unless someone is doing a formal paper, they almost always abrieviate everything. MK DL DCA EP MGM DAK/AK TDS TDL DLP WDSP IASW HISTA WWTBAMPI (which I think is the worst abbreviation ever) SM DQ LMA TT ToT RnRC GMR M:S F! and OKW to name a few.

    -Michael
    Yes, lots of people abbreviate. NTTAWWI.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  10. #25

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    Great Column, Kev!
    Listen to me on the radio!

    us101country.com Fridays- 9p-12m ET and Saturdays- 7p-10p ET

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  11. #26

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    Kevin says the plans for WDW 5th gate are "mind-blowing", but what does that mean? Does anyone have any idea what hes talking about?

    Sounds like the mystery company is either six-flags, or busch gardens!
    "There's no off position on the genius switch"

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  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRDest79
    Kevin says the plans for WDW 5th gate are "mind-blowing", but what does that mean? Does anyone have any idea what hes talking about?
    Air conditioners for ears?

    If mystery company = SixFlags (good idea to get more year-round exposure), then fighting fire with fire (taller, faster, loopier) will still have to be Disney-unique. Putting random thrill rides in a 5th park, if only to "kill the enemy," but not to remain its own company and retaining its brand, will not be in the best interest of WDW visitors.

    Anyone know how much business IOA is pulling away from WDW? Can't think it's too much.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Unless someone is doing a formal paper, they almost always abrieviate everything. MK DL DCA EP MGM DAK/AK TDS TDL DLP WDSP IASW HISTA WWTBAMPI (which I think is the worst abbreviation ever) SM DQ LMA TT ToT RnRC GMR M:S F! and OKW to name a few.

    -Michael

    Well, as disgusting as the abreviations WWTBAMPI and NTTAWWI are, I would gladly use them anytime instead of verbalizing what DCA stands for. I'll be talking to you more on the MA-MCB.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRDest79
    Kevin says the plans for WDW 5th gate are "mind-blowing", but what does that mean? Does anyone have any idea what hes talking about?

    Sounds like the mystery company is either six-flags, or busch gardens!
    Perhaps the concept will ventilate and keep cool the region that lies between a person's ears.

  15. #30

    • A Real Disney Attraction
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    Quote Originally Posted by sediment
    Anyone know how much business IOA is pulling away from WDW? Can't think it's too much.
    Enough to give Universal double digit attendance growth last year, while Disney subsidizes Tragical Express to try to de-motivate visitors from going with flexible transportation while in Orlando.
    -Mike

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