Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1

    • MiceAge Columnist
    • MiceAge Founder & Editor
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    809
    Blog Entries
    1

    7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Steve takes a look at the one of the details that makes the Disneyland Railroad so special, discuss it here!
    "Politics is the profession whereby the inevitable is made to seem a great human achievement" - Quentin Crisp

  2. #2

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,182
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    I absolutely love your articles Steve. I've never done more than give a passing glance and occasional ride on the trains. Your articles bring so much more depth to them that I ever knew existed. Being a WDW fan, I hope that one day you can get the same amount of info regarding their trains as well. For now, I'll be satisfied with learning all of this wonderful information.

  3. #3

    • Junior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    57

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Tease!!!!!!!

    Great article by the way. I have always loved riding the trains both at DL and MK. This historical look is great.

  4. #4

    • Closed Account
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,897

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Yes, kcnole, I would like to do some WDW articles. The locomotives do have some interesting history, and in some respects, they do a few things slightly differently than at Disneyland. Their stories have barely been covered--no where near as well as the Disneyland trains!

    And about the tease--Blame that Lutz guy!

  5. #5

    • Yay Mickey!!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Packerland U.S.A.
    Posts
    119

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Steve, another great article. As a Disney fan and a rail fan, the two come together quite naturally. I never miss a ride on either the DLRR or the WDWRR and prefer to use them as transportation and not just an attraction. Just seeing and hearing these steam beasts makes me feel good. I feel even better knowing that there are people at DIsney now and those in the past that have given new life to these wonderful creations. They always seem so happy to me pulling load after load of Disney Guests.

    Can't wait for the next installment.

  6. #6

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,797

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Interesting information about the Ernest S. Marsh. Talk about a conversion or change. That must have been a long process. Thanks, look forward to the next part of the story.
    1st Amendment-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  7. #7

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Just around the riverbend
    Posts
    8,057

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Steve, as always you make every detail of the Disneyland trains sparkle and shine like new. I honestly never looked at the trains so carefully until reading your articles here - they really add a new dimension when I go on board the trains now.


  8. #8

    • Iron-Clad Allie
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    39,482

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    The builders plates are an intriquing aspect of the trains that I have been completely unaware of. Can't wait to read your next article when it is revealed whether the Disneyland plates are original or reproductions.

    Walt called the right shot in estoring the original Earnest S. Marsh engine, yet altering it to that of a more streamlined and ornate 1871 engine. The earlier original design would not have captured the beauty and majesty of the iron horse ara. It was designed for function, in the absence of form.

    As you have indicated, Steve, Disneyland is about illusion merged with reality on an impressive and fantastic scale.

    Where are the water tanks on the Gurley and Marsh? Are they in saddle form, like train engines of the past?
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 08-01-2007 at 06:50 AM.
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  9. #9

    • Iron-Clad Allie
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    39,482

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Thanks, everyone.

    TicToc and RW, Walt specified that no expense should be spared in the Marsh conversion. Thanks go to Ward Kimball for coming up with the design.

    RW, as for where the Gurley and the Marsh carry their water now, both carry their water in their tenders. Each tender is divided internally into two compartments. One holds fuel, the other water.
    Thanks. It's probably more pragmatic to carry the fuel and water in the timbers - in terms of motor efficiency and maintanance.

    What are the names of each of the engines, and what years were they christened into service at Disneyland?
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  10. #10

    • Closed Account
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,897

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior View Post
    Thanks. It's probably more pragmatic to carry the fuel and water in the timbers - in terms of motor efficiency and maintanance.
    All that weight draped like a saddle over the engine gives it a lot of traction. But when the water tank is like this, there is usually only room for a small fuel bunker attached to the engine frame right behind the cab.

    A separate tender allows an engine to carry more water and fuel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior View Post
    What are the names of each of the engines, and what years were they christened into service at Disneyland?
    No. 1 C.K. Holliday, 1955

    No. 2 E.P. Ripley, 1955

    No. 3 Fred Gurley, 1958

    No. 4 Ernest S. Marsh, 1959

    No. 5 Ward Kimball, 2005

  11. #11

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    1313 S. Harbor Blvd.
    Posts
    456

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Once again, good job, Steve. However, your article begs for answers to a couple of questions.
    "They's two B's in basketball!"

  12. #12

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    1313 S. Harbor Blvd.
    Posts
    456

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Once again, good job, Steve. However, your article begs for answers to a couple of questions. In redesigning an engine like that, wouldn't the problem of traction return, removing the saddle tank and halling people?
    If they redesigned the engine to look like a Denver engine, why wouldn't they use the Denver 'Yellow, Silver & Black' color scheme instead of Burgundy?
    "They's two B's in basketball!"

  13. #13

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills CA - Hottest spot in Los Angeles City Limits
    Posts
    3,663

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Quote Originally Posted by Brer Bear View Post
    Once again, good job, Steve. However, your article begs for answers to a couple of questions. In redesigning an engine like that, wouldn't the problem of traction return, removing the saddle tank and halling people?
    In it's original use on a plantation the added traction of the saddle tank water weight over the drivers would be useful for hauling larger loads and/or steeper grades. But in their Disneyland service they don't have a very severe grade to work with, IIRC the worst is around a 2% rise between New Orleans and Toontown.

    Besides, as the water level in the saddle tank goes down so does the traction. And IMHO saddle tanks ruin the whole outline, they look clunky.

    And the loads may seem big, but they really aren't if the engine is running properly at full steam - hook two or three full sets of passenger cars, pack them all full of people, and now you can give the engine a workout.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1

  14. #14

    • Closed Account
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,897

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    Quote Originally Posted by Brer Bear View Post
    Once again, good job, Steve. However, your article begs for answers to a couple of questions. In redesigning an engine like that, wouldn't the problem of traction return, removing the saddle tank and halling people?
    As I wasn't really relating the entire history of the engines (which will probably be covered in future articles), I didn't want to really go into the details, so here's the quickie version:

    The engine that became the Ernest S. Marsh was built in 1925 for use on the Raritan River Sand Company--a quarry in New Jersey. Saddle tanks are great for traction, but when rating a steam locomotive's pulling power, one usually relies on a formula to calculate "tractive effort." The formula relies on variables such as the engine's steam pressure, drive wheel diameter, and piston size.

    Tractive effort indicates the amount of power available at the engine's coupler for pulling loads. Traction is important, but the engine's weight doesn't affect the calculated tractive effort. It's not even part of the equation. So, there was really no issue in removing the tank, and making the engine into something more conventional looking.

    There was an unintended result, however: The engine's suspension was designed to flex under the heavier weight of the saddle tank. Removing that load changed that dynamic, and the engine is purported to be the roughest riding engine on the line--a real bone-shaker!


    Quote Originally Posted by Brer Bear View Post
    If they redesigned the engine to look like a Denver engine, why wouldn't they use the Denver 'Yellow, Silver & Black' color scheme instead of Burgundy?
    That yellow/silver/black scheme you see today was developed in the 1950s, and was most often found on the passenger cars (a couple locomotives featured a variation of it, notably C-16 locomotive No. 268, seen here):

    http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pi...m/drgw268b.jpg

    However, when Kimball chose the design from the Rio Grande RR, he based it on the Rio Grande's very first engine, which was not painted in these colors, but instead was originally painted in dark shades of black, maroon, and metallic blue. However, because Ward was charged to go "all out" on the engine, he went with red.

    At the turn of the century (and even today) red paint was one of the most expensive there is. Back in the day, the town fire departments were often so proud of their fire fighting machinery that they painted them--you guessed it--red, a tradition that continues today. So, painting the newest engine on the Disneyland Railroad red seemed like a good choice at the time and, while red engines weren't common, a few did exist--notably on the New York City elevated railway.

  15. #15

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    1313 S. Harbor Blvd.
    Posts
    456

    Re: 7/31: Sign of the Times, Part I

    You're a walking encyclopedia! (Yes, spelled with Jiminey's help) I am very impressed. Have you ever been to Phillippe's in LA and saw their railroad exhibit?
    Not as impressive as your knowledge, but it goes good with the beef-dipped sandwich and mustard.
    "They's two B's in basketball!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 8/7: Sign of the Times, Part II
    By Al Lutz in forum MiceAge Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-15-2007, 10:01 PM
  2. It was the best of times...it was the worst of times...it was BPF's Halloween party!!
    By dubeskin in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-16-2006, 09:54 AM
  3. Another Sign Of The Times: Goodbye, Tower Records?
    By Radiobarry in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-18-2006, 11:30 PM
  4. DLH new sign
    By FantasyWatersDude in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
  5. Disneyland: Best of Times, Worst of Times
    By Gemini Cricket in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-16-2005, 10:40 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •