View Poll Results: Do You Want Avatarland?

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I'm OK with a violent/smoking film becoming a land

    8 57.14%
  • No, Disney shouldn't grab for dollars while promoting child smoking

    6 42.86%
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 49
  1. #16

    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paris, France / Los Angeles
    Posts
    38,884
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    You could also argue that because characters are smoking in the future, that science discovers that smoking in healthy for you, (along with bacon and fatty foods, like that Woody Allen film). Sounds like a tobacco company's wet dream.

    There is even the issue of second-hand smoke, something that Weaver's character doesn't give a dam about.
    Or... in the future, maybe all the smokers will kill off all the non-smokers who were constantly meddling in their lives before the second-hand smoke has the time to take effect.

    I'm not saying that's the way to go. They shouldn't colonize the Nav'i either.

  2. #17

    • Metro-Retro Historian
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Brava Centauri
    Posts
    1,009

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Not to mention Pinnochio with kids smoking tobacco, vandalizing buildings, and beating up each other in the rough house on Pleasure Island.
    If I remember right, every character in Pinocchio smokes except Jiminy Cricket, Figaro, and Cleo. Cleo coughs smoke rings when a cigar is put out in her bowl, but she doesn't seem to like it so I don't think she should count.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  3. #18

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    A broken bit of logic, that: you assume I am not aware of the public health issues related to smoking (an incorrect assumption), then from it deduce an incorrect conclusion.
    Part of the gestalt of public health issues surrounding smoking includes the portrayal of smokers in films, (as opposed to the adverse health effects of smoking which is at the level of an individual, versus smoking in films, which we look at at the level of the population).

    I should have said more precisely that people who have been professionally trained to deal with public health and medical issues (me for example!), wouldn't be so blase concerning the issue of smoking in a film. I'm not going out on a limb to say that there is a 99.9% chance that you don't have a medical or a public healthcare degree. You say I am making an unfair assumption, but of course you provide no evidence as to your expertise. You seem to be angered that I can read your post and in all likelihood deduce your level of understanding and familiarity with this public health issue. Well, if, for example, you had some sort of specialized knowledge in Hungarian cabinet making and I commented on something I know little about, then yes, you would be able to call me out on it.

    As you yourself said, "I can assure you that smoking was neither "prominently featured" in the film nor was it a "big controversy." It was a character bit affected by one of the film's co-stars, and was seen briefly with background characters. There was, and is, nothing controversial about it."

    Everybody makes their own opinions, and it is laughable that you would "assure" everybody there is no problem with smoking and Avatar.

    And then you quote your expertise as "participating" in all the Avatar related threads on Miceage. There isn't a lot of scholarly articles, or primary sources, on Micechat, hence you aren't learning much, just airing your grievances. Um, Weaver's character is prominent in the film, her smoking is not something happening in the background and even I can remember her, "Who's got my goddamn cigarette?" line.

    Scenesmoking.org gave Avatar a black lung for the positive portrayal of smoking, and one advocate commented that it was millions in free advertising for the tobacco companies.

    Smoking in movies can be more powerful that just advertising, when it comes to getting teens to smoke. Weaver's character was meant to be sexy, rebellious, assertive, and she uses smoking a way to deal with stress. I don't think anybody who saw the film thought that she was a villain.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-16-2013 at 10:50 AM.

  4. #19

    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paris, France / Los Angeles
    Posts
    38,884
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Or, some know about the risks of smoking, know about the effects of seeing smoking on screen, and think the whole thing's overblown and outrageously over-enforced. We think scrubbing clean all depictions of smoking is going too far. We don't buy into it and we never will. Because we value freedom: from over-reaching anti-smoking advocates, would-be film censors and the like.

    The American Heart Association et al has a right to pursue their goals and the rest of us have the right to resist Big Brother making all the decisions for everyone.

  5. #20

    • I'm from Canada eh!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,068

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Regardless, I wish the inclusion of Avatar land at AK would simply just go up in smoke.

  6. #21

    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paris, France / Los Angeles
    Posts
    38,884
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    Regardless, I wish the inclusion of Avatar land at AK would simply just go up in smoke.

  7. #22

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Or, some know about the risks of smoking, know about the effects of seeing smoking on screen, and think the whole thing's overblown and outrageously over-enforced. We think scrubbing clean all depictions of smoking is going too far. We don't buy into it and we never will. Because we value freedom: from over-reaching anti-smoking advocates, would-be film censors and the like.

    The American Heart Association et al has a right to pursue their goals and the rest of us have the right to resist Big Brother making all the decisions for everyone.

    There's an old saying, "the right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." I hate second hand smoke, my grandfather smoked around my mom and she got asthma from it. So, I think it is more than fair that second-hand smoke is banned in public places, and parents shouldn't smoke inside a house where kids live, and they shouldn't smoke around them period.

    Another problem with Avatar is that Weaver's character smokes around people. Hopefully in the future second hand smoke will be banned on spaceships and in public areas.

  8. #23

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    Regardless, I wish the inclusion of Avatar land at AK would simply just go up in smoke.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, Avatarland is going to be the biggest, baddest, shiniest smoking section ever imagineered by Disney.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #24

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California, United States
    Posts
    2,564

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    I voted Yes, I'm OK with a violent/smoking film becoming a land. Even though the wording in the poll option is a bit much. There is so much smoking and violence in Disney propeties I am not sure how pointing out a non-disney property even matters. I am not sure about this thread honestly but I am ok with them building the land but I fail to see the connection to promoting smoking by doign so.

  10. #25

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,542

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Avatarland has hit some snags in development, and there have been some behind the scene conflicts. Disney already has enough of a reason to pull the plug.
    Source?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Another problem with Avatar is that Weaver's character smokes around people. Hopefully in the future second hand smoke will be banned on spaceships and in public areas.
    This doesn't mean that whatever attractions are in the land would have to include this. There is a scene in Episode III where Anakin kills Jedi children. That is not addressed in the ride or the Jedi Academy show.

    The Indiana Jones movies contains scenes of people getting melted, stabbed through the head, decapitated, and having their hearts ripped out. These are absent from both the ride and the stunt show.

    Avatarland doesn't need to have a smoking blue Mickey walk around character.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #26

    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paris, France / Los Angeles
    Posts
    38,884
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    If they go with corporate sponsorship of Avatarland from Phillip Morris, I might be persuaded that it promotes smoking.

    For all we know the Sigourney Weaver audioanimatronic might be depicted without a cigarette at all. Or an e-cigarette to pacify some criticism.

  12. #27

    • From the Garums
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    29

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Regardless of the truth of anything you're saying Cheshire, this is not where this should be posted and the title is misleading. It's conjecture that Avatarland is going away due to smoking or violence. Not a single person official Disney source has even broached the subject. The response would have to be overwhelming and immediate for Disney to cancel the plans (if they are still in place), like it was with Merida.

    The issue is also with the movie Avatar more than the land. The connection between taking your child to see the land, them demanding to see Avatar, them noticing Sigourney Weaver smokes, and then them becoming a smoker later in life is somewhat dubious. The issue's with the film, not the land. Shutting down this hundreds of millions of dollar project because one character likes to smoke in a film the land is based on isn't going to happen.

    As for the censorship, you should take to your child about smoking openly and honestly. If you give them real information about what smoking does to your body, and about how tobacco companies market their products as something stress-free and relaxing, they'll have enough information to not start smoking because Sigourney Weaver does in the film. Censorship, trying to hide things and pretend they don't exist, will pique a child's curiosity far more than a character on screen smoking will.

    I did a quick googling, it looks like 21% of Americans are smokers now, down from almost 50% in the 40's and 50's. Smoking used to be a stronger cultural idea than it is today. Smoking was first classy and elegant, then individual, rugged, and rebellious, but now it's just sort of gross. No one looks at a smoking guy and thinks they're cool the way they did in the 80's, or that they're elegant like they would in the 50's. The idea has changed, and having a section of an amusement park based on one film in which one character likes to smoke is not going to have any impact on the cultural perception of smoking. That is extremely alarmist.

  13. #28

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    I still can't get over that you think Avatar should've been rated R...it was very tame, especially by today's standards.

    The thing is, you're not going to find a perfect moral movie to base an attraction off of. Indiana Jones really almost WAS rated R (Raiders of the Lost Ark was rated 14A in Canada, and Temple of Doom inspired the PG-13 rating because of its closeness to an R-rating), and features plenty of smoking, drinking, killing, blood, Nazis, religious taboos, etc...yet no one is complaining about the Temple of the Forbidden Eye

    A wholesome attraction can be made independently of the film. Song of the South was highly controversial and even considered racist, but you dont see Splash Mountain carrying themes of racism in it...in the end it's just a fun ride based on cute characters. An Avatar attraction does not need a smoking character, smoking is not an integral part of the story at all, therefore it's a non-issue.

  14. #29

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post

    This doesn't mean that whatever attractions are in the land would have to include this. There is a scene in Episode III where Anakin kills Jedi children. That is not addressed in the ride or the Jedi Academy show.

    The Indiana Jones movies contains scenes of people getting melted, stabbed through the head, decapitated, and having their hearts ripped out. These are absent from both the ride and the stunt show.

    Avatarland doesn't need to have a smoking blue Mickey walk around character.

    Smoking in films does increase teen smoking rates, more so than advertising for cigarettes. Other advertisers do produce placement in movies for the commercial value as well, (not saying that a tobacco company sponsored Avatar, just an example).

    Sure, Indy 2 had a lot of violence, but it spurred the PG-13 rating, so it happened a while ago. Nonetheless, it seems to be that Avatar does more to promote smoking than a lot of other films, by making one of the heroes in the film smoke, she's also a brilliant scientist who wants to help the natives on Pandora.

    Most kids aren't at risk for slaughtering a jawa village with a light saber, I'll skip the whole violence in films angle as the smoking in films link to teen smoking rates has already been proven. If the only response to smoking in Avatar is that maybe some other films are worse, then I think the opponents aren't seeing the big picture.

    There probably won't be smoking in Avatarland, HOWEVER kids/families who experience the land might buy the DVD of Avatar, or pull out the Avatar DVD and watch it again, and the experience of Avatarland might make the characters more attractive to kids.

  15. #30

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Is Avatarland Finished Due to Smoking and Violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I still can't get over that you think Avatar should've been rated R...it was very tame, especially by today's standards.
    R rated for the depiction of smoking. Why expose young teenagers to smoking that appears to be perfectly normal, including second hand smoke, and in a glamorizing manner?

    Here's a CNN article:

    Should smoking trigger an R rating? - CNN.com

    Movies that show actors smoking tobacco should automatically earn an R rating in order to minimize copycat smoking among impressionable tweens and teenagers, the authors of a new study suggest.

    . . .

    For every 500 smoking scenes a child saw in PG-13 movies, his or her likelihood of trying cigarettes increased by 49%. The comparable figure for R-rated movies was 33%, a statistically negligible difference. Assigning an R rating to all movies portraying smoking would lower the proportion of kids who try cigarettes at this age by 18%, the authors estimate.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Why start smoking and or drinking alcohol?
    By BFJen in forum Gibson Girls
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 03-09-2007, 09:31 PM
  2. Where's the sex and violence from the 50th show?
    By Lore in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-02-2007, 11:55 PM
  3. Tourists from Shanghai more than double in July, due to HKDL and HK Shopping Festival
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-19-2006, 06:27 AM
  4. Are PoD and Remember... 100% finished?
    By grvtydefy in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-10-2005, 08:40 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •