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  1. #16

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Why would anyone pay money to support this sleeze ball of a director?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #17

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    ^ exactly no interest in this film at all

  3. #18

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Why would anyone pay money to support this sleeze ball of a director?
    Almost as if morality is relative and other people might have different opinions about the film!

    Art should, generally speaking, make you uncomfortable. I think the fact that people are so divided over this film is a credit to the director. Of course you can say that this this is simply an exploitative, terrible film but I think you'd be wrong by default given that many people feel very differently about it.

  4. #19

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Almost as if morality is relative and other people might have different opinions about the film!

    Art should, generally speaking, make you uncomfortable. I think the fact that people are so divided over this film is a credit to the director. Of course you can say that this this is simply an exploitative, terrible film but I think you'd be wrong by default given that many people feel very differently about it.
    Art is one thing. While I'm not really a fan of artsy-fartsy movies, I would support the idea in the name of art if it was made legally and did not infringe upon people's rights.

    There are proper channels for getting things done and this guy cheated. I have nothing but contempt for such a vile human being.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #20

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    This film never could have been made through the proper channels, which is why it's so interesting. A day at Disneyland is all about the proper channels: nothing can really go wrong, the only danger you're in is fictional and the only problems you have are waiting in lines and figuring out what you want to do next. For that reason I find the idea of subverting this perfect, sterile, fairytale environment by filming a surreal movie there to be incredibly interesting.

    Sometimes you have to "cheat" to make worthwhile art. Furthermore, I find the claims of "rights infringed" to be a bit overwrought. I am sincerely struggling to imagine a scenario in which someone's life is negatively impacted by their brief presence in the background of a shot in this movie, or at least any more than a life could be negatively impacted by appearing in the background of anything else (Miceage updates, family vacation videos, news clips) filmed at Disney World.

  6. #21

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Hypothetically if you were in the movie for a split second or two in the background what would SAG be able to do for you?
    It is not necessarily a question of what SAG would be able to do for her, it is what SAG could do TO HER. If she is a memeber (I assume so) she could be sanctioned with fines for appearing in a movie uncredited and unpaid. This happened to a friend of mine who was helping another friend with a film school project. The film got picked up at a festival and shown publically. Because he was uncredited and unpaid, and had not even thought of the need to fill out the appropriate paperwork, he was given a fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It doesn't matter how many seconds you're in the film; if you're there at all and visible it counts as background work.
    ... and this is the rationale they gave my friend when he contested the fine, even though this film wasn't a SAG production.

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  7. #22

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Well, Malina, keep us updated about any fines or sanctions that you encounter as a result of potentially appearing in the background of this film.

  8. #23

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by Attic Haunt View Post
    It is not necessarily a question of what SAG would be able to do for her, it is what SAG could do TO HER. If she is a memeber (I assume so) she could be sanctioned with fines for appearing in a movie uncredited and unpaid. This happened to a friend of mine who was helping another friend with a film school project. The film got picked up at a festival and shown publically. Because he was uncredited and unpaid, and had not even thought of the need to fill out the appropriate paperwork, he was given a fine.
    Yep. It doesn't matter if it's a school project or whatever, if you're SAG you have to work SAG, and they can and will find out if you don't. I am assuming that if I fill out a grievance, and that if SAG is aware of the way this film was made, they will understand that I didn't know I was being filmed and didn't consent to it - therefore, I didn't violate SAG policies knowingly. You're 100% right, though. They could totally come after me for this, and they could also go after any other guest or cast member that happens to be SAG - and considering it's Southern California it's a real possibility that there are a bunch of SAG members who were taped unknowingly - and that could have real impact on one's ability to get future work. I only do it part-time since I have another ("real") job but I still don't want to get in trouble with SAG.
    Last edited by Malina; 10-11-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    There are many people on this forum who are upset at the ethics of the film and the fact it was done without Disney's permission nor consent.

    Question to this crowd, and it's an honest question and I'd be very interested in hearing reasons if there's a difference between the two cases:

    How do you feel about Banksy's intrusion into the backwoods of BTMRR a few years back?
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  10. #25

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Personally I feel like that's a great example of why art has to break the rules sometimes. That hooded figure in a museum wouldn't be nearly as poignant as it is at Disneyland. It demonstrates the contrast between this perfect, idealized vision of America and the reality of our actions as a nation on the international stage. If it makes you uncomfortable... well, that's the idea.

  11. #26

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Personally I feel like that's a great example of why art has to break the rules sometimes. That hooded figure in a museum wouldn't be nearly as poignant as it is at Disneyland. It demonstrates the contrast between this perfect, idealized vision of America and the reality of our actions as a nation on the international stage. If it makes you uncomfortable... well, that's the idea.
    There are ways to create art that does this without infringing on the rights of other people or making them work for free.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Yes, there are. There are a lot of ways to do a lot of things. My personal opinion is that realistically nobody will be harmed as a result of appearing in the background of this film. It's fine to speculate that potential harm will come, but similarly I can speculate that no harm will come. Unless any real harm against anyone in the background of the film has come to light I'm afraid I'm not terribly concerned.

    Beyond that if you're not even sure if you're in this film in the first place (realistically: you are not) then the idea that you were made to work for free is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. If SAG is so inflexible that they would fine you for an appearance that you had no control over then perhaps there are larger problems here.

  13. #28

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Yes, there are. There are a lot of ways to do a lot of things. My personal opinion is that realistically nobody will be harmed as a result of appearing in the background of this film. It's fine to speculate that potential harm will come, but similarly I can speculate that no harm will come. Unless any real harm against anyone in the background of the film has come to light I'm afraid I'm not terribly concerned.

    Beyond that if you're not even sure if you're in this film in the first place (realistically: you are not) then the idea that you were made to work for free is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. If SAG is so inflexible that they would fine you for an appearance that you had no control over then perhaps there are larger problems here.
    Here's the thing, though: the potential victim needs to decide if there's harm, not the perpetrator.

    I normally get paid for appearing in films, whether as background, under five or whatever. If I appear in a film and do not get paid, I am being exploited because I am providing them with free background, and I am not being compensated for the same thing I normally do for a salary.

    I think that in this case the onus WILL be on the filmmaker, because he filmed under a SAG contract (which means he agreed to play by SAG rules, which includes paying the background. If he didn't do that, it's on him, not me. It isn't the same as appearing in a non union film). I think that he would get in trouble; I wouldn't, and I would be able to claim scale payment. Regardless, though, it's an example of how doing something without thinking of the repercussions for the people around you can have very real consequences for them.
    Last edited by Malina; 10-11-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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  14. #29

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    So how do you act when you're at Disneyland and you see a sign of this nature:


  15. #30

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    Re: Escape from Tomorrow has been released

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    So how do you act when you're at Disneyland and you see a sign of this nature:

    It's been explained before that documentary, non-fiction footage is different than films - and that's true in the eyes of SAG,too.

    If I saw that sign for a fictional show like Modern Family, for instance, I'd have to keep my distance because I'd normally get paid for being in that show. For a non-fiction documentary/news program such as the Parade, which has nothing to do with SAG, I normally would not get paid in any case, so I would just decide if I wanted to be there or not. That might depend entirely on how I felt about being seen in the audience at that particular event. For instance I wouldn't want to be spotted in the audience for a political rally if I didn't agree with the platform or party.

    The point with that sign is a big one that the filmmaker of EtT missed: giving people the option to walk away.

    Think about the actors you see on TV: they get paid for being in shows and they wouldn't work for free. They will however be filmed walking down the red carpet for free or give candid interviews if they're spotted at a game or concert because it isn't considered work in the same way, even though it's being recorded.
    Last edited by Malina; 10-11-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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