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  1. #1

    • Mischievous Mouse
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    Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    In reading about Indiana's law, as well as other states, requiring voters provide picture ID to vote, I agree with the requirement, but I feel it's our responsibilty to provide the low income with ID at no charge.

    What do you think?


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  2. #2

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    I agree that states that are requiring some form of ID to vote, that the State has a responsibility to provide some sort of photo ID at no cost to those who need it.

    I am not sure of "low income", because a poll tax is a poll tax, and it should be the same rules for everyone.

    Driver's Licenses should remain a fee based system, as there is no "right" to drive, it is a privilege, and the costs of testing should be paid by the individual.

    But a basic photo ID should be made to those who don't have a Driver's License or a Passport, or some other approved form of Government ID that shows you are a US citizen and reside in the proper district.

    Also, maybe a "travelling" ID processing center that can travel the state, so folks don't have to travel far to get the needed ID.

    But I want people to have to show their ID and prove who they are, that they registered properly, and live in the proper precinct. Also computer checking, to make sure people don't vote more than once in an election. (Some folks have more than one home in different states, they should only be allowed to vote in their "Primary" state, which is the one they spend the most time of the year at.)
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  3. #3

    • Dave
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    I too agree with the photo ID thing. Photo ID in most States isn't more than 20.00 so no I don't think the poor should get it free. Here is a thought since we in the middle class pay for everything how about we get free ID. The poor can fork out $20.00 for an ID that is good for an average of 10 years.
    Dave

  4. #4

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    The 24th Amendment of the US Constitution states...


    Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

    Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    Courts have ruled a requirement to pay a fee to purchase an Photo ID from the government is a form of government taxation (aka Poll Tax), and is not allowed.

    So, to allow the requirement to show a form of ID to vote, then the state needs to offer a "free" version, if they want to check ID's.

    Note, the constitution says nothing about "low income", so if they offer free Photo ID's for voting, it should be made available to everyone, regardless of income. But in reality, most higher income folks would have a Driver's License, so the government wouldn't give away to many "free" ID's to the higher income folks.

    But I am all in favor of preserving the "trust" of American Elections, which includes inspection of the Voter Rolls to eliminate folks who have passed on, or who have moved from the area, a paper trail (I am in favor of electronic assistance devices that help whose who are blind, etc.), but each and every vote should end up on paper, in case of a recount. Also, a way to verify that the person voting is eligible (18 or older, a US Citizen and not a Felon who has had their voting rights taken away from them) and the fact the person actually lives in the precinct where they plan to cast their vote.
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  5. #5

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    The Associated Press article I was reading reported that Indiana already does provide free photo IDs to those who need it, and not just low-income people.

  6. #6

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigwavedave View Post
    I too agree with the photo ID thing. Photo ID in most States isn't more than 20.00 so no I don't think the poor should get it free. Here is a thought since we in the middle class pay for everything how about we get free ID. The poor can fork out $20.00 for an ID that is good for an average of 10 years.
    So the poor should pay while you get it free? And tell me - where is the economic justice in that? Oh wait, I know - the economic justice is that you benefit while other people who are barely making ends meet have to struggle to exercise their legal rights as citizens. As long as it benefits you, it's okay, and who cares about the poor anyway, right?

    I'd call you a name, and you'd be very deserving of it, but that's not allowed here. Consider yourself fortunate in that respect.

    Darkbeer's right - being required to pay for a governmental photo ID, and then being forced to show said governmental photo ID in order to vote, amounts to a poll tax, and is not only illegal, but immoral as well.

    Thus, basic photo IDs should be provided by the government free of charge to those who require it and are unable to pay. It doesn't matter if it only costs a nickel to produce one, they should be free to whomever requires one and has no other form of governmental ID (such as a driver's license, which requires a fee), is eligible to vote, and wishes to do so.

    I am deeply offended by those fellow American citizens who are quick to accept the government's spending of absolutely obscene amounts of money to fight a foreign war with no clear objective and no exit strategy, yet go out of their way to cheer on the denial of the most basic of rights to American citizens who are on the lowest end of the economic scale. That goes beyond depraved indifference.
    Last edited by Retrocool; 05-06-2008 at 05:06 PM.

  7. #7

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    I'd like to see free ID card to anyone that needs one, regardless of economic status.
    Just countin' the days til the next visit!

  8. #8

    • formerly PretzelSouls!
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Here in California there is a ID card for a reduced price...I don't support the thought of giving out "free" ID cards, just more tax dollars out the door.
    "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau


  9. #9

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Quote Originally Posted by PretzelSouls View Post
    Here in California there is a ID card for a reduced price...I don't support the thought of giving out "free" ID cards, just more tax dollars out the door.
    Even if every single US citizen was given a free ID card by the Federal government (whether they needed one or not), the amount of tax dollars required for such a task wouldn't come anywhere near to the amount of tax dollars already spent on the wasteful war in Iraq.

    What you are advocating is that US citizens be required to pay to cast their vote in an election. Why not just deny citizenship to anyone in the US with an annual income below $30,000?

  10. #10

    • Mischievous Mouse
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    Note, the constitution says nothing about "low income", so if they offer free Photo ID's for voting, it should be made available to everyone, regardless of income. But in reality, most higher income folks would have a Driver's License, so the government wouldn't give away to many "free" ID's to the higher income folks.
    True, most have drivers licenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichKoster View Post
    The Associated Press article I was reading reported that Indiana already does provide free photo IDs to those who need it, and not just low-income people.
    That's encouraging

    Quote Originally Posted by All4dISNEY View Post
    I'd like to see free ID card to anyone that needs one, regardless of economic status.
    That's ok with me. But wouldn't that be similar to offering food stamps to all income levels, and what about senior citizen discounts, could that be "reverse age discrimination"? Am I being penalized for being UNDER 65?

    I think in any good democracy, we need to allow for "welfare" for the under priveleged, and monitor it to be sure the able body don't abuse the system.

    I feel obligated to PAY MY FAIR SHARE, it's my duty as an American, if I am able. When I need assistance, I can get, limited, that's the key... LIMITED assistance.


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  11. #11

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    A Poll Tax is a Poll tax, REGARDLESS of income level, and is against the US Constitution.

    As mentioned earlier, many folks have a driver's license, and if you look at the "average" income, the higher the income, the higher percentage of folks at the income range will already have an Government issued Photo ID.

    But if the State wants to require the verification of using an ID to Vote (which I support!), then they need to provide a way for legal residents in the state to get a Photo ID at no charge. And that is ANYONE (who is eligible to vote) who requests one, no matter their income level. Yes, more "lower-income" will need a free ID than the folks in at higher income level, but it isn't fair to charge a poll tax to ANYONE!

    And let me suggest something, lets focus on VOTER'S Rights, and keep this "non-partisan", otherwise there is a good chance that this thread will be closed, or transferred to the "Gold" section.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer's Apprentice View Post
    That's ok with me. But wouldn't that be similar to offering food stamps to all income levels, and what about senior citizen discounts, could that be "reverse age discrimination"? Am I being penalized for being UNDER 65?
    That's not at all the same. And wouldn't you like to know that those food stamps are going to the correct person? A free ID card could cut down on a lot of food stamp (and other) fraud.

    A senior citizen discount is not a right. And if you want it, the burden of proof lays on you anyway.

    I'm for free ID cards for anyone who needs it. Maybe your first card is free, and then after that, if you lose it, you have to replace it yourself. That's fair.
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  13. #13

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    Re: Shouldn't the government provide FREE photo ID to low income?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigwavedave View Post
    I too agree with the photo ID thing. Photo ID in most States isn't more than 20.00 so no I don't think the poor should get it free. Here is a thought since we in the middle class pay for everything how about we get free ID. The poor can fork out $20.00 for an ID that is good for an average of 10 years.
    It's like $5 (give or take) here in Florida for just a state-issued ID. And they don't expire.

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