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  1. #16

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Dreamworks caters to the teens, who go to movies all the time. They get their money back quick. Disney/Pixar are going after the younger kids AND their parents, which are not a fleeting demographic that only see movies that their teenage friends have all seen or want to see.
    No one in the animation business is only going after teens, it's far too limiting. Katzenberg jumped on McDonalds 4 years ago to further their Mom & kid-focus with Happy Meals for example. Families have pushed the 'Shrek' and 'Madgascar' films into the billions at the box office and home entertainment.
    "If you don't know how to draw, you don't belong in this building" - John Lasseter 2006

  2. #17

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    I agree that families have pushed the Shrek and Madagascar films into the billions in box office receipts, I also agree that Dreamworks makes animated titles that are full of cultural references and in-jokes that are too relevant to age well. The idea of re-releasing Shrek every 10 years as a 'classic' isn't really plausible.

    It's also true that Disney just keeps missing the boat on merchandising. They go with the wrong toys, often at the wrong time and often miss the marketable aspects entirely. What they should do is form a consumer panel of fans, collectors, etc. and test-market things, clearly what they do now isn't working.

  3. #18

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    What they should do is form a consumer panel of fans, collectors, etc. and test-market things, clearly what they do now isn't working.
    They used to but it didn't make a difference because those in charge were set in their ways and no outside influence would help. Actually, everything they were doing wrong was based on a previous year's suggestions.

    So obviously, they need to not listen to a random band of fans but rather: DO THEIR JOB. They need to become fans of Disney and figure out what THEY would want to own. What THEY would want to give to their friends and families. They also need to start selling stuff that fans would never expect in a million years, but would go "of course! i want that!"

    They haven't done something that really resonated since the launch of Olzewski miniatures of Disneyland.


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  4. #19

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    They haven't done something that really resonated since the launch of Olzewski miniatures of Disneyland.
    And the funny thing about the Olzewski minis is that they're really high quality so they sell very well. If Disney continues to serve up unimaginative and poor quality toys then how can they be surprised with poor sales? I do have high hopes for the new Lego lines for Disney, and hope Lego does its versions of the park rides one day.

  5. #20

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by vfire View Post
    And the funny thing about the Olzewski minis is that they're really high quality so they sell very well. If Disney continues to serve up unimaginative and poor quality toys then how can they be surprised with poor sales? I do have high hopes for the new Lego lines for Disney, and hope Lego does its versions of the park rides one day.

    Sad but true, and I do have high hopes for LEGO as well. At least, it'd make a lot more sense to have a Lego store in downtown disney now! (i always joked about why they didn't have a disney store at legoland)


    As for the Olzewski miniatures, those sell for a premium but you also have 50 years of fans of Disneyland... many who have grown up and have the cash to spend.

    The films don't have that kind of luxury. They need to be strong sellers instantly and independently from how well the movie does. Even if a movie does well it doesn't guarantee strong toy sales. But if a movie does poorly, the toys will definitely suffer (speed racer anyone?).

    Although with Mattel launching a new line of Toy Story toys, it's proof that a good movie that's been around can continue to be successful.... and even more successful since they have basically had 14 years to experiment on what works and what doesn't.

    UP... well, it's got an uphill climb. But if Lasseter fully believes that quality is the best business model, then it really depends on what they end up selling.


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  6. #21

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    The perils of being down on 'Up'

    Market analysts cast doubt on Pixar's arty fare

    The perils of being down on 'Up' - Entertainment News, Film News, Media - Variety

  7. #22

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Just wanted to state the same thing I stated all along. If there's good product for something people love, people WILL buy it. Ultimately, it comes down to Disney not being able to predict their own success and to convince retailers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    LOL, the headline made me laugh.


    But this argument isn't a huge laughing matter as it was rather thought provoking. Worldwide, the last two Pixar films were very successful and won major awards. But why worry?

    I guess business is business.


    I went to imdb.com to take a look at their records (i know there are other ones that may be more accurate but this is just an example).


    WORLDWIDE top 100

    13. Shrek 2 (2004) $880million - DREAMWORKS

    15. Finding Nemo (2003) $856mil - PIXAR

    21. Shrek the Third (2007) $791mil - DREAMWORKS

    35. Kung Fu Panda (2008) $633mil - DREAMWORKS

    36. The Incredibles (2004) $624mil - PIXAR

    37. Ice Age: The Meltdown (2006) $623mil - BLUE SKY

    39. Ratatouille (2007) - $614mil - PIXAR

    43. Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008) - $594mil - DREAMWORKS

    57. WALL-E (2008) $532mil - PIXAR

    58. Monsters, Inc. (2001) $528mil - PIXAR

    66. Toy Story 2 (1999) $485mil - PIXAR


    77. Shrek (2001) $455mil - DREAMWORKS

    78. Cars (2006) $454mil - PIXAR


    Doesn't seem all that bad right? Well... take a closer look at the dollars earned combined:

    DREAMWORKS TOTAL: $3,353,000,000 (5 movies = $670million each)
    Pixar Total: $4,093,000,000 (7 movies = $584million each)




    Dreamworks seems to be making more per film. Now let's take a look at the USA only:

    4. Shrek 2 $460mil - dreamworks

    15. finding nemo $339mil - pixar

    19. Shrek the Third $320mil - dreamworks

    38. Shrek $267mil - dreamworks

    40. the incredibles $261mil pixar

    44. Monsters Inc $255mil - pixar

    49. Toy Story 2 $245mil - pixar

    50. Cars $244mil - pixar

    65. Wall-E $223mil - pixar


    75. Kung Fu Panda $215mil - dreamworks

    82. Ratatouille $206mil - pixar

    92. Happy Feet - WB

    94. Ice Age: The Meltdown - blue sky

    95. Madagascar $193mil - dreamworks

    96. Toy Story $191mil - pixar



    Again, it looks like Pixar dominates the board overall. But look at the top 3 Dreamworks movies. Finding Nemo is the only one fighting them off.

    Total dreamworks: $1,455,000,000 (5 movies = $291mil each)

    Total Pixar: $1,964,000,000 (8 movies = $245mil each)




    So breaking it down that way, I suppose I can see why the money-grubbing morons are worried. But I personally think that if a toy store doesn't want your merchandise, you're not making the right toys. Being a toy collector, I know what people really want. Disney toys in the USA miss the mark 75% of the time.

    I think Pixar is very commercial, personally. When I see a good movie, I WANT to own something from it. But usually there is nothing WORTH getting! Incredibles was awesome.... but all I got was a tin sign. The toys were horrible.



    on a tangent, something interesting to note: Close Encounters of the Third kind. 5 notes by John Williams. This was something Pixar wanted in Toy Story 2 but it was too expensive. Dreamworks apparently had what it takes to put it in Monsters Vs Aliens though.

    Is Dreamworks really that much more commercial? Do they really sell that many more merchandise?


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  8. #23

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Analyst Admits to Being ‘Dead Wrong’ After Disney’s ‘Up’ Is Big Earner
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/bu...r=1&ref=movies

  9. #24

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Haha, they're still jerks.


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  10. #25

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    And Funniest title of the year - thank you New York Magazine!
    "If you don't know how to draw, you don't belong in this building" - John Lasseter 2006

  11. #26

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by ALIASd View Post
    Analyst Admits to Being ‘Dead Wrong’ After Disney’s ‘Up’ Is Big Earner
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/bu...r=1&ref=movies
    But has Iger admitted that he was wrong as well? He's the one who demanded that Pixar rearrange its schedule to push "Newt" back because he wanted something more marketable.

    Disney needs to get back to working on quality and stop trying to pigeon hole toys and plush into story-lines.

    With quality and success will come merchandising opportunities. Stories should dictate merchandise, not the reverse.

    Films like "UP" prove that a good story and high attention to quality DOES pay off. But will Disney learn that lesson, or continue looking for the cheap buck?

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  12. #27

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Merchandising has been non existant for years now. They are only trying to chase the Cash Cow, after dead and buried. SO many things are wrong with the way they are merchandising.

    The moratorium on kids meals toys - Disney has failed in this regard - It used to help get the word out about Disney and Pixar movies, ahead of time AND for the first few important weeks of the movies release. The toys would get families talkinng about the movie, and remind and encourage families to see the movies. And the toys brought home and continued to remind the kids to remind their parents about the movie. ALL that is lost without the kids meals. And McDonalds customers are often the main focus of Disney's focus audience.

    For some movie, like the Emperor's New Groove, there was barely any merchandise, the Happy Meal Toys were among the EXTREMELY limited merchandise. The Disney Store has had some limited merchandise, but the initial merchandise for Bolt and Up has been pathetic. Not even their standard pvc figures. Selection of merchandise for new animated movies at DL is even worse.
    They haven't even bothered changing the main windows in the Emporium in the past 5 years. And the marquees on the faux street in DCA have stopped advertising the most recent Disney animated movies.

    So much of the important synergy has completely disappeared.

  13. #28

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Great headline.
    PIXAR proves again the 'Story is king'

  14. #29

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    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    I don't know, I think Dug and Russell can be more easy to market in Merchandise rather than Carl.

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