Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
  1. #1

    • MiceChat News Team
    • Top Shelf!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    BANZAI INSTITUTE for Biomedical Engineering and Strategic Information
    Posts
    13,137

  2. #2

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    LOL, the headline made me laugh.


    But this argument isn't a huge laughing matter as it was rather thought provoking. Worldwide, the last two Pixar films were very successful and won major awards. But why worry?

    I guess business is business.


    I went to imdb.com to take a look at their records (i know there are other ones that may be more accurate but this is just an example).


    WORLDWIDE top 100

    13. Shrek 2 (2004) $880million - DREAMWORKS

    15. Finding Nemo (2003) $856mil - PIXAR

    21. Shrek the Third (2007) $791mil - DREAMWORKS

    35. Kung Fu Panda (2008) $633mil - DREAMWORKS

    36. The Incredibles (2004) $624mil - PIXAR

    37. Ice Age: The Meltdown (2006) $623mil - BLUE SKY

    39. Ratatouille (2007) - $614mil - PIXAR

    43. Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008) - $594mil - DREAMWORKS

    57. WALL-E (2008) $532mil - PIXAR

    58. Monsters, Inc. (2001) $528mil - PIXAR

    66. Toy Story 2 (1999) $485mil - PIXAR


    77. Shrek (2001) $455mil - DREAMWORKS

    78. Cars (2006) $454mil - PIXAR


    Doesn't seem all that bad right? Well... take a closer look at the dollars earned combined:

    DREAMWORKS TOTAL: $3,353,000,000 (5 movies = $670million each)
    Pixar Total: $4,093,000,000 (7 movies = $584million each)




    Dreamworks seems to be making more per film. Now let's take a look at the USA only:

    4. Shrek 2 $460mil - dreamworks

    15. finding nemo $339mil - pixar

    19. Shrek the Third $320mil - dreamworks

    38. Shrek $267mil - dreamworks

    40. the incredibles $261mil pixar

    44. Monsters Inc $255mil - pixar

    49. Toy Story 2 $245mil - pixar

    50. Cars $244mil - pixar

    65. Wall-E $223mil - pixar


    75. Kung Fu Panda $215mil - dreamworks

    82. Ratatouille $206mil - pixar

    92. Happy Feet - WB

    94. Ice Age: The Meltdown - blue sky

    95. Madagascar $193mil - dreamworks

    96. Toy Story $191mil - pixar



    Again, it looks like Pixar dominates the board overall. But look at the top 3 Dreamworks movies. Finding Nemo is the only one fighting them off.

    Total dreamworks: $1,455,000,000 (5 movies = $291mil each)

    Total Pixar: $1,964,000,000 (8 movies = $245mil each)




    So breaking it down that way, I suppose I can see why the money-grubbing morons are worried. But I personally think that if a toy store doesn't want your merchandise, you're not making the right toys. Being a toy collector, I know what people really want. Disney toys in the USA miss the mark 75% of the time.

    I think Pixar is very commercial, personally. When I see a good movie, I WANT to own something from it. But usually there is nothing WORTH getting! Incredibles was awesome.... but all I got was a tin sign. The toys were horrible.



    on a tangent, something interesting to note: Close Encounters of the Third kind. 5 notes by John Williams. This was something Pixar wanted in Toy Story 2 but it was too expensive. Dreamworks apparently had what it takes to put it in Monsters Vs Aliens though.

    Is Dreamworks really that much more commercial? Do they really sell that many more merchandise?


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  3. #3

    • The line's too long...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Big Sandpit
    Posts
    1,156

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    As the article says the next two Pixar films will be merchandising bonanzas with Toy Story 3 and Cars 2.
    But in any case, if Disney makes crappy toys, as usual, then they're not going to get bought. Didn't someone at Disney say that quality is a good business strategy? That doesn't seem have to trickled down to the toy division.

  4. #4

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by vfire View Post
    As the article says the next two Pixar films will be merchandising bonanzas with Toy Story 3 and Cars 2.
    But in any case, if Disney makes crappy toys, as usual, then they're not going to get bought. Didn't someone at Disney say that quality is a good business strategy? That doesn't seem have to trickled down to the toy division.

    True, but in the case of Toy Story and Cars specifically, those have been the two films that never had a problem selling toys. In fact, Mattel is relaunching a line based on the original Toy Story film this year (makes sense since the original will be released in 3D this fall).

    But I think the investors were more worried about not having enough *new* franchises. They just see the $ result and Pixar films cost more to make and earn less than Dreamworks.

    What the article doesn't go into is just how much longevity Pixar films have compared to Dreamworks. I'd be curious to see an article about how much each studio has made in DVD sales and merchandise.


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  5. #5

    • On Autopilot
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    On the Axiom
    Posts
    515

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    True, but in the case of Toy Story and Cars specifically, those have been the two films that never had a problem selling toys. In fact, Mattel is relaunching a line based on the original Toy Story film this year (makes sense since the original will be released in 3D this fall).

    But I think the investors were more worried about not having enough *new* franchises. They just see the $ result and Pixar films cost more to make and earn less than Dreamworks.

    What the article doesn't go into is just how much longevity Pixar films have compared to Dreamworks. I'd be curious to see an article about how much each studio has made in DVD sales and merchandise.
    I also agree, although it seems that Pixar gets flack when it comes to their toys...
    (although that didn't stop me from buying Both versions of King and the only Auto toy in existance)

    Who cares if Up isn't that commercial? I remember that Disney marketed the hell out of Chicken Little and it only did ho hum at the theaters....



  6. #6

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    8,138

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    UP's lack of marketability was one of the concerns I had when I first saw the characters. Dug and Kevin are the only characters that have "plushability", and the two leads don't really strike up any interest with me at all. Knowing Pixar, they'll probably knock it out of the park no matter what.

    However, I sure hope box office projections are actually at a realistic level this time around. Face it, I doubt Pixar will ever make another Nemo-sized hit, and if they do, I bet it'll be either Toy Story 3 or Cars 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    What the article doesn't go into is just how much longevity Pixar films have compared to Dreamworks. I'd be curious to see an article about how much each studio has made in DVD sales and merchandise.
    IMO, not a single Dreamworks film, aside from maybe Kung Fu Panda, will ever be timeless. They are bogged down by too many cultural references and just won't age gracefully.

    However, also IMO, all of Pixar's films will be timeless. Some (Nemo) more than others (Cars), but I have no doubt in my mind that in 20 years, Pixar's films will all be regarded as classics.

  7. #7

    • MiceChat News Team
    • Top Shelf!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    BANZAI INSTITUTE for Biomedical Engineering and Strategic Information
    Posts
    13,137

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchon View Post
    Face it, I doubt Pixar will ever make another Nemo-sized hit, and if they do, I bet it'll be either Toy Story 3 or Cars 2.
    Those sequels are givens.
    However denying the possibility Pixar can't create something even bigger than 'Nemo' down the road based on their track record seems like a supremely foolish statement. If there was the belief in Emeryville that they'd hit the wall you'd have to believe that they'd be renting U-Hauls & packing up instead of adding a new wing to their facilities for the future.
    "If you don't know how to draw, you don't belong in this building" - John Lasseter 2006

  8. #8

    • Faith, Trust & Pixie dust
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania6-5000
    Posts
    2,368

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Is it wrong to produce an animated movie just because you like the story? Does it have to just be for kids and for putting out merchandise? What about the adults? We go to movies too and last time I checked, it was the adults who kept going back to Nemo.

  9. #9

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancywitt View Post
    Is it wrong to produce an animated movie just because you like the story? Does it have to just be for kids and for putting out merchandise? What about the adults? We go to movies too and last time I checked, it was the adults who kept going back to Nemo.

    Absolutely not wrong to produce an animated movie because it's a great story. The argument in the article was that UP while creatively dazzling, was too much like Miyazaki's work.

    WOW, IS THAT A BAD THING?

    Holy cow. Does that guy know how much business Miyazaki movies make in Japan? Overshadows everything there. Pixar IS the event movie going experience for me. So why don't they make as much as Dreamworks?

    I dunno... are kids dumber these days? Maybe, but I don't think that's it. Pixar movies plays much better for the older crowd because they're incredible films. That's something that might get lost to the youth.


    I was a four year old when I watched E.T. for the first time. Hated it. It just didn't appeal to me. But now as an adult, it's amazing. Same with Pinocchio when I first watched it as a kid, I had no idea how GOOD it really was until years later when I could sit through the whole thing.

    But Pinocchio and E.T. are now movies that have lived with me my entire life. That's quality. How many kids out there are going to go back to Shark Tale or Bee Movie?


    Quality is the best business model - that's no lie. Pixar movies will still be making money long into the future.

    (evidence: i bought my first buzz lightyear 12" action figure this year, 14 years after the movie was released.... and will buy the exclusive 4" Buzz Lightyear figure at this summer's comic-con because his packaging is a replica of the movie packaging. took 14 years for someone to finally do that.)


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  10. #10

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, US
    Posts
    2,110

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Disney toys in the USA miss the mark 75% of the time.
    They released virtually no Herbie stuff for Herbie Fully Loaded. Not even a McDonalds Happy Meal! They went with Shark Boy and Lava Girl toys instead. Come on even if Herbie hadn't pulled in $70mil. A toy car in a Happy Meal is always found gold!

  11. #11

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by sailerm View Post
    They released virtually no Herbie stuff for Herbie Fully Loaded. Not even a McDonalds Happy Meal! They went with Shark Boy and Lava Girl toys instead. Come on even if Herbie hadn't pulled in $70mil. A toy car in a Happy Meal is always found gold!


    It's a shame that Disneyland doesn't even sell some of the stuff that gets made:






    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  12. #12

    • Nutty about Disney parks
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    2,616

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Yeesh, people. A toy company is a serious major business like all other companies out there. They have a right to be concerned about the marketability of a film and whether or not it's gonna appeal to their major consumers (the kids).

    What do you expect? A toy company is not gonna embrace a film for being artsy or good. They're basing their business on whether or not good toys can be made from the film's characters because what sells is what's keeping the toy companies alive. The film will still be successful anyway because it's got PIXAR slapped on its name. That will be enough to get people to buy tickets.

    If anything is likely to fail...it will probably be poor advertising. So far we've only had a few in theater trailers for Up and the release date is coming up pretty close. If Disney Marketing wants any chance at suceeding with this one (or say at least they tried) they better up their A-game for this one or it will be Ratatouille all over again.
    Toonaspie: I have Asperger's. I like cartoons. Toonaspie!

  13. #13

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, US
    Posts
    2,110

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    The Johnny Lightning Herbies came out about 3 years before Herbie Fully Loaded, and oddly though they don't sell them at Disneyland, they were for sale at the studio store in Burbank (which isn't open to the public)

  14. #14

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Yeesh, people. A toy company is a serious major business like all other companies out there. They have a right to be concerned about the marketability of a film and whether or not it's gonna appeal to their major consumers (the kids).

    What do you expect? A toy company is not gonna embrace a film for being artsy or good. They're basing their business on whether or not good toys can be made from the film's characters because what sells is what's keeping the toy companies alive. The film will still be successful anyway because it's got PIXAR slapped on its name. That will be enough to get people to buy tickets.

    If anything is likely to fail...it will probably be poor advertising. So far we've only had a few in theater trailers for Up and the release date is coming up pretty close. If Disney Marketing wants any chance at suceeding with this one (or say at least they tried) they better up their A-game for this one or it will be Ratatouille all over again.


    Advertising is going full force in Los Angeles and Orange County. I see billboards and bus shelters everywhere.

    And when it comes to toys, it's no guarantee, even with a movie like Toy Story. Retailers said no on that movie too! And look what happened. So it works both ways. Retailers make a decision based on what they think the movie would sell, but it also helps if Disney ensures the toys made are worth buying.

    Bug's Life, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, Incredibles, Ratatouille. Those are all great pixar movies with horrible toys. Retailers supported them too, but people saw them as crap and passed.

    In the case of Toy Story, it was worth buying and people jumped on too late. I haven't seen UP so i really can't tell you what toys could come of it but merchandise and collectibles generally do well if the movie is great and the products are authentic and good.


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  15. #15

    • Rock Star Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,374

    Re: Pixar's UP not commercial enough, claim jerks

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Absolutely not wrong to produce an animated movie because it's a great story. The argument in the article was that UP while creatively dazzling, was too much like Miyazaki's work.

    WOW, IS THAT A BAD THING?

    Holy cow. Does that guy know how much business Miyazaki movies make in Japan? Overshadows everything there. Pixar IS the event movie going experience for me. So why don't they make as much as Dreamworks?

    I dunno... are kids dumber these days? Maybe, but I don't think that's it. Pixar movies plays much better for the older crowd because they're incredible films. That's something that might get lost to the youth.

    I was a four year old when I watched E.T. for the first time. Hated it. It just didn't appeal to me. But now as an adult, it's amazing. Same with Pinocchio when I first watched it as a kid, I had no idea how GOOD it really was until years later when I could sit through the whole thing.

    But Pinocchio and E.T. are now movies that have lived with me my entire life. That's quality. How many kids out there are going to go back to Shark Tale or Bee Movie?


    Quality is the best business model - that's no lie. Pixar movies will still be making money long into the future.
    I agree with all of this. When your kids grow up and have kids of their own, they'll be watching Pixar and classic Disney movies. Not Dreamworks crap.
    Dreamworks caters to the teens, who go to movies all the time. They get their money back quick. Disney/Pixar are going after the younger kids AND their parents, which are not a fleeting demographic that only see movies that their teenage friends have all seen or want to see.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Disney & others claim '09 & '10 release dates
    By ALIASd in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-20-2007, 11:03 AM
  2. What's Your Claim To Fame?
    By I Heart Disneyland in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 06-14-2007, 07:41 AM
  3. My Claim to Fame
    By Phonedave in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-22-2006, 07:55 AM
  4. Disney Claim Adjusters?
    By Aristocat in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-02-2006, 12:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •