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  1. #166

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    It's not just movies. It's a library of characters and unlimited potential. Disney isn't buying a phenomenon. They're buying into something that will be there for generations, just as it already has been.
    Did you notice how many of those movies have been released in the past few years? All of a sudden, there are not just one or two super hero movies in a given year; there are several. Prompted by the huge box office of the Spider-Man and X-Men movies, it morphed from a marginal part of the movie biz (some years in the 90s had no super hero movies at all) into the latest greatest box office tidal wave in this decade. And that's when Disney wakes up and pays huge money to buy in.

    That is the opposite of visionary, creative leadership; that's trend chasing. Heaven forbid they would ever be ahead of the curve! We should be able to expect much better from the overpaid suits at WDC. Instead, a lot of you guys are applauding this move, because it's so blatantly "obvious".

    Funny thing about business; the most obvious, safest looking moves are in fact the riskiest of all. Why? Because the market will always make you pay through the nose to buy a winner. And today's winner could be tomorrow's has been.

    At the end of the day, after all the swell beancounter blah-blah about exploiting brands and mining intellectual properties and strategic positioning, Disney is spending $4 billion on the whims and tastes of a bunch of 13-to 18-year-old boys.
    Indeed. Thanks for boiling it down for us, Mr. Wiggins.

  2. #167

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Regardless, informed sources tell me that if Universal wanted to reuse the characters, they'd only be able to use the characters in a similar way -- ie, the same show, or a similar show.
    I'm told that this is because the Universal-Marvel licensing contract is extremely narrow: Universal has to follow it to the letter, or they risk losing the characters altogether. Universal's parks group structures contracts so that there's a master licensing agreement for the Marvel name, and then individual sections for the properties. It's not a catch-all, you-have-a-blanket-license-to-use-any-Marvel-character-as-you-see-fit-in-your-parks, because Marvel's not stupid. And because Marvel owns high-profile characters (it's like this for most non-owned properties), Universal must get approval for any additional/future use of Marvel's characters so Universal doesn't use the characters in a way Marvel doesn't like. For that reason alone, Marvel has a big ol' out in their contract with regards to future use.
    So essentially Disney can put a spy into the parks, see if there's something fishy about the way these face characters behave and suddenly the contracts null because there's a very narrow margin and if Universal does anything to Marvel's characters they don't like, it can all be nulled. Right? Why do I see this getting very ugly very fast?

  3. #168

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Do you see the phenomenon or trend? What I see is a slew of product that hasn't stopped in the last 10 years and doesn't show any signs of slowing down.
    Not going to quote the entire post, but I agree 100%. And that's only the comic book movies from Marvel.

    Not to even mention the DC comics (Batman, Superman) the graphic novel movies (Sin City, Watchmen), etc.
    Last edited by sir clinksalot; 09-01-2009 at 02:21 PM.


  4. #169

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    Did you notice how many of those movies have been released in the past few years? All of a sudden, there are not just one or two super hero movies in a given year; there are several. Prompted by the huge box office of the Spider-Man and X-Men movies, it morphed from a marginal part of the movie biz (some years in the 90s had no super hero movies at all) into the latest greatest box office tidal wave in this decade. And that's when Disney wakes up and pays huge money to buy in.

    That is the opposite of visionary, creative leadership; that's trend chasing. Heaven forbid they would ever be ahead of the curve! We should be able to expect much better from the overpaid suits at WDC. Instead, a lot of you guys are applauding this move, because it's so blatantly "obvious".

    Oh I'm not debating whether or not this is some sort of visionary or creative business move. Like I said, we can debate THAT till the cows come home. I'm debating that this isn't some sort of "phenomenon" that you seem so confident about.

    And so what if we applaud a move? It is "obvious" as long as they take the proper care with it. I applaud because I like Marvel and think that there's untapped potential there. They've only begun to scratch the surface of it.

    I don't think they're a natural fit for the theme parks per se, but if Disney allows them to be like Pixar and provide more resources to fulfill a vision or goal, it can be great.

    No, this isn't visionary. This is just business. I was most certainly against their Go network venture back in the day and I was right about that one.


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  5. #170

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Again, I'm just going to ask if anybody who is not sure about how they will fit into a Theme Park have been to Islands of Adventure. The Marvel Superhero Island isn't just full of regular rollercoasters named after comic book characters. Not at all.


  6. #171

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    It's not just movies. It's a library of characters and unlimited potential. Disney isn't buying a phenomenon. They're buying into something that will be there for generations, just as it already has been.
    Exactly right.

    But my question is, what difference will it make? Disney already had a library of characters with unlimited potential -- for free, in the Disney library. Characters with a huge Q with the public. Top writers, top directors, top animators -- hell, even John Lasseter worked there!

    And how did they handle it?
    The Marvel purchase, like the $7.4-billion deal Iger negotiated in 2006 to bring Pixar into the Disney fold, is another sign that Disney's top brass realizes that the company's reign as an original creative engine for mass entertainment is over.

    Once an idea factory full of brilliant animators and imagineers, Disney is now a mass merchandising machine in search of exploitable product, whether it comes from Marvel, Pixar or DreamWorks, which will be releasing its upcoming slate through Disney as well.

    The signals of Disney distress have all been visible for some time. The Pixar deal was a frank admission that Disney's venerable animation factory had run out of gas. Not long after Disney bought Pixar, John Lasseter gave an especially revealing interview to Fortune magazine, where he told of Iger experiencing a remarkable epiphany when attending an opening-day parade at the ceremonial launch of Hong Kong Disneyland.

    As Lasseter recalled: "[Bob] was watching all the classic Disney characters go by, and it hit him that there was not one character that Disney had created in the past ten years. Not one. All the new characters were invented by Pixar."

    Iger clearly had a similar moment of brutal corporate clarity when he made an unusually frank admission to media analysts this year when attempting to explain why Disney had such an abysmal quarter with its theatrical releases when the other studios were enjoying near-record box-office returns. "It's about choice of films and the execution of the films that have been chosen for production," Iger confessed. "We've had a rough year. So in that case, it's not the marketplace. It's our slate."
    Source: Los Angeles Times 8-31-09

    So the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight is now instantly brilliant? After floundering and flailing, now everything's cool because they bought the Marvel library?

    Ya right.

    Drive by TDB and tell me if there isn't a boom box on the top floor playing...
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    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  7. #172

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right.

    But my question is, what difference will it make? Disney already had a library of characters with unlimited potential -- for free, in the Disney library. Characters with a huge Q with the public. Top writers, top directors, top animators -- hell, even John Lasseter worked there!
    Until you put it in these exact terms, I hadn't seen this side of the argument, and its absolutely right. Why not create an epic film with a great story for the Fab 5? Characters from the old Disney Afternoon could be included in the story and it would still be plausible. I'm sure there are video games where such a thing takes place, but I want a big movie with Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Goofy, and Pluto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    So the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight is now instantly brilliant? After floundering and flailing, now everything's cool because they bought the Marvel library?

    Ya right.
    So true.

  8. #173

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right.

    But my question is, what difference will it make? Disney already had a library of characters with unlimited potential -- for free, in the Disney library. Characters with a huge Q with the public. Top writers, top directors, top animators -- hell, even John Lasseter worked there!

    And how did they handle it?
    Source: Los Angeles Times 8-31-09

    So the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight is now instantly brilliant? After floundering and flailing, now everything's cool because they bought the Marvel library?

    Ya right.

    Drive by TDB and tell me if there isn't a boom box on the top floor playing...
    That ain't workin'
    That's the way you do it
    Money for nothin' and your chicks for free.


    I definitely don't disagree with you guys on Disney and their lack of ability to do anything truly original.


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  9. #174

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    As Lasseter recalled: "[Bob] was watching all the classic Disney characters go by, and it hit him that there was not one character that Disney had created in the past ten years. Not one. All the new characters were invented by Pixar."
    Chris Sanders' original creation "Lilo & Stitch" made over $273 million worldwide at the box office alone in 2002 with untold millions and millions more in merchandising, etc. and gave Disney easily one of the most successful new characters in the studio's history.

    Sanders and his co-director/screenwriter Dean DeBlois are currently at DreamWorks Animation working on their next film, "How To Train Your Dragon" for a 2010 release.

  10. #175

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Well, you have to wonder why Disney lets people like that go. They have the resources to hire and retain original talent, and creating vast amounts of great work in house, instead of trying to buy up the world. Imagine what they could have done with the $11 billion + they laid out for Pixar and Marvel, if they had instead used that money to cultivate lots of talented people with good ideas -- people like Chris Sanders. The potential would be limitless.

    The other thing that really burns me is when they slash budgets for the theme parks, then plead poverty and act as if their hands are tied, trying to make us believe that they just can't spend any more than the minimum. Then they turn around and spend a monster sum to buy another entertainment company.

    And don't tell me those two things are unrelated, because they are. It has been reported many times on these boards that Disney shifts money around between divisions, sometimes robbing Peter to pay Paul. Sometimes they've taken away from the theme parks in order to prop up some underperforming segment of their unwieldy, bloated empire.

    Clearly, if they lay out billions for the next big thing, us theme park fans will again get the shaft. As a result of their lack of vision, we sometimes have to endure yet another delay, or have the frustration of hearing about yet another cancelled project. Sometimes we have to settle for a good new attraction, instead of a great one -- or a mediocre/bad one instead of a good one.

    So go ahead and applaud this latest mega-deal if you must, but don't kid yourselves: there will be hidden costs, and guess who pays? That's right: just like in the mirror.
    Last edited by disneyfann121; 09-01-2009 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #176

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right.

    But my question is, what difference will it make? Disney already had a library of characters with unlimited potential -- for free, in the Disney library. Characters with a huge Q with the public. Top writers, top directors, top animators -- hell, even John Lasseter worked there!

    And how did they handle it?
    Source: Los Angeles Times 8-31-09
    So the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight is now instantly brilliant? After floundering and flailing, now everything's cool because they bought the Marvel library?

    Ya right.

    Drive by TDB and tell me if there isn't a boom box on the top floor playing...
    That ain't workin'
    That's the way you do it
    Money for nothin' and your chicks for free.
    That L.A. Times article is depressingly on the mark, although I will say one thing in the company's defense. I'm sure a lot of blame for this decline can be laid at the feet of Eisner and his cronies, and Iger has done quite a lot to undo the damage (even though he was one of Eisner's cronies!)

    So even though I disagree with the Pixar and Marvel deals, the company is still doing a lot better than the darkest days of Eisner's greedhead meltdown.

  12. #177

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by FredSimmons View Post
    The Marvel universe is so different from Disney universe that I can't imagine them bringing the Marvel superheroes into Disneyland. It would just look incredibly weird...
    exactly how i feel. Marvel is nothing like disney. well at least not like the old disney

  13. #178

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)



    "I'm gettin' kind of fond of you, kid.
    Not that I want to pick out curtains or anything."

  14. #179

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbl0vesj View Post
    Marvel is nothing like disney. well at least not like the old disney
    That makes 'em a perfect match -- Disney is nothing like the old Disney, either.


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  15. #180

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    Re: Spiderman and Hulk move into Fantasyland (Disney to buy Marvel for $4 Billion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right.

    But my question is, what difference will it make? Disney already had a library of characters with unlimited potential -- for free, in the Disney library. Characters with a huge Q with the public. Top writers, top directors, top animators -- hell, even John Lasseter worked there!

    And how did they handle it?
    Source: Los Angeles Times 8-31-09

    So the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight is now instantly brilliant? After floundering and flailing, now everything's cool because they bought the Marvel library?

    Ya right.

    Drive by TDB and tell me if there isn't a boom box on the top floor playing...
    That ain't workin'
    That's the way you do it
    Money for nothin' and your chicks for free.
    To coin a phrase: Bingo.
    Please visit my Big Thunder/Disney Inspired Model Railroad


    Dream big. Do what you love.

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