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  1. #1

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    Your opinions...

    Reading an article at Laughing Place, the author of the article mentioned to leave Pixar to making the CG films because it clearly is the best, and let Disney Feature Animation make the 2D films- a very good point in my opinion. I think even if feature Animation released a film every two years in 2D animation, it would be better than CG films once a year. This way, you don't have sister studios competing with one another and there won't be a constant comparison between the two. Keep Pixar Pixar(CG), and keep Disney Disney(hand drawn). I have hopes that if managment does decide to go back in time, it will be beneficial to both studios.

    WDFA should focus on emotional and beatifully hand drawn animated features that, even if released every two or three years, are true to what Disney animation was founded on. This way, Disney will ultimately be unique and stand above the rest with its beautiful handcrafted productions, rather than lay low with the floods of crappy CG films that are everywhere now. In the meantime, Pixar will still stand above the rest because it has the best computer graphics out of any studio hands down.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2

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    Re: Your opinions...

    Good thinking in general - - but both units must be open to exploration of creative ideas from all staff in whichever medium. The crossover of talent will be essential. And there are ways to use computer technology to service an artistic vision that is not necessarily three-dimensional. There are many possibilites and hybrids we have not seen yet that can emerge from this new alliance of traditional Disney type creatives on both sides of the CG fence.

    When I was a kid, Disney's new animated features came out every three or four years, with a featurette or short between times, and it was always an "event." Hand-drawn could be that way again - - the operation doesn't need to be a huge as it became to hit those yearly releases.

  3. #3

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    Re: Your opinions...

    That's a great question. I think it's important to remember that Lasseter and Catmull will be in charge of ALL of WDFA, and so one of the big "wait and see" questions is just how they plan to organize the new WDFA when the merger is finalized. Pixar will still be in Emeryville and be physically separate, but how will it be integrated organizationally? What will be the longtem fate of Circle 7 or ToonDisney? Will WDFA consist of mutliple divisions or will it just be Pixar and "Everybody Else".

    My guess is that Lasseter wouldn't want any division of WDFA to be bound to one kind of medium or the other. "Meet the Robinsons" or "American Dog" may turn out to be great films, and so Lasseter would want to give those guys the freedom to make more CGI pics. On the other hand, someone like Brad Bird may want to make a hand-drawn pic, so that could theoretically be done at Pixar! Who knows, maybe we'll even see a stop-motion pic coming from somewhere in WDFA, I think it's wide open.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Your opinions...

    My eyes are on Curious George... Which is a high bred 2D film made for about 50 million... I am projecting it out that it will be in profit... Not just because of the Box Office and DVD, but because of plugging the soundtrack the way they are...

    So far, Pixar has been doing things that have for the most part been original and not followed a trend in CGI story making... These guys lead, they don't follow...

    So the real questions are here: 1) is there a market? and 2) can Disney be a leader improve the return in that market? I think the answer is yes to both questions...
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    Re: Your opinions...

    >>So the real questions are here: 1) is there a market? and 2) can Disney be a leader improve the return in that market? I think the answer is yes to both questions...<<

    Certainly there is a market, but to maximize the chances for success they need to create a slate of both wildly inventive, experimental, whimsical and original ideas AND classical-sincere Disney fairy tales and fables off the Snow White/Dumbo block - - both types of films have a big upside potential in the marketplace.

    Where they went wrong was with stale PC stuff with hard-to-define ideas, neither fish nor fowl, neither "traditionally Disney" nor fresh and compelling, neither for kids or adults (Pocahontas, Emperor, TP, Atlantis).

  6. #6

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    Re: Your opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones
    Where they went wrong was with stale PC stuff with hard-to-define ideas, neither fish nor fowl, neither "traditionally Disney" nor fresh and compelling, neither for kids or adults (Pocahontas, Emperor, TP, Atlantis).
    Actually I thought what went wrong was artistic mistakes...

    Pocahontas was problematised by a more introspective score. I didn't think the team of Menken and Shwarts was a good compotation... Steven Shwarts is way too intro spective a lyracist to put together a snappy score for a movie... He is definately not Tim Rice or Howard Ashman... I think you would have been better off taking a chance on a newer lesser known Lyracist... Try and find the next Larson (Rent)... Menkin is talented, but he is only as good as his lyracist... Because he responds well to story and words...

    Emperor's New Groove had serious plot line and dramatic developement problems that made people get lost in the story... It was David Spade run amok... (parts where very funny thou... But the plot line suffered!!!)

    Hercules was problemitised by the Gospel Music Score that I think was in congruant with the material - so Christians saw it as being blasphimous... As well as a canned story line with plot devices simular to Little Mermaid... (And despite what people think it wasn't the first animated film based on mythology. The Black Cauldron is based on celtic mythology... That has always bugged me...)

    Treasure Planet just didn't do it... merging SciFi and Pirates... Genras you think would go together, but they don't.... Pirate films are a tricky genra anyway... Hidden Treasure stories are a hard sell..

    I am not going into Atlantis or even worse Home on the RANGE. (shutter)

    Brother Bear was ok, but what made Lion King better was it was an integrated musical... And the target audiance I think the story appealed to was very small... Basically Micheal Eisner when he was at summer camp...

    The bright spot in all of this was Lilo and Stitch... Which surprised me, they got something right by making something original... It was reflected in the Box Office as well...
    Last edited by cellarhound; 02-15-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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  7. #7

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    Re: Your opinions...

    >>Where they went wrong was with stale PC stuff with hard-to-define ideas, neither fish nor fowl, neither "traditionally Disney" nor fresh and compelling, neither for kids or adults (Pocahontas, Emperor, TP, Atlantis).<<

    >>Actually I thought what went wrong was artistic mistakes...<<

    Systematic "Artistic mistakes" =

    "stale PC stuff with hard-to-define ideas, neither fish nor fowl, neither "traditionally Disney" nor fresh and compelling, neither for kids or adults"

    "creative differences - change agents - rebranding - marginalized animators - management that doesn't like Disney cartoons"

  8. #8

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    Re: Your opinions...

    I hate the look of the animation in Emperor and it's sequels, but Disney has done worse than it or Hercules. Although it's far from my favorite, the ending of Emperor reminded me so much of the Madam Mim VS Merlin battle from Sword in the Stone, with the different animals and whatnot, so I guess I kind of have a forgiving soft spot.

    Pocahontas was an attempt to cram a new princess down our throat while simultaneously win some more Oscars. I thought Mulan was a better story and wasn't as pretentious.

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    Re: Your opinions...

    I liked the animation style in "Hercules" and I think they were purposely trying to do something different and quirky. But the style in "Emperor" just seems, I don't know, lazy? I would have loved to seen what "Kingdom of the Sun" might have been like, but we'll never know.

    My understanding is that "Emperor", "Home on the Range", and "Treasure Planet" were all projects that had the potential to be great but each one got tripped up, hurried along, or completely scrambled in the development process.

    My great hope is that under the leadership of Lasseter/Catmull, the "Treasure Planet" and "Emperor/Kingdom" projects of the future will actually be allowed to fully develop into the best product, instead of getting mangled by upper management and constricted by release schedules.
    "I'm working on changing Hollywood...at the studio that fired me twice."
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  10. #10

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    Re: Your opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doopey1
    My understanding is that "Emperor", "Home on the Range", and "Treasure Planet" were all projects that had the potential to be great but each one got tripped up, hurried along, or completely scrambled in the development process.
    My understanding was that it really was Disney's MO under Eisner to speed up production schedule of Animated features from the very beginning... The trouble is Eisner never really fully understood the animation process why it needs to take as long as it sometimes does... He was just interested in cranking out movies and reaping profit... He didn't really care if the movie was good or not... And that is why he is sitting on his rear in some puffy NY appartment right now and not in Burbank.
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  11. #11

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    Re: Your opinions...

    I love Pocahontas, I really do. I think the artwork is beautiful - some of the backgrounds are so detailed, and I really like the music as well. Listen With Your Heart sends shivers down my spine - but I can understand the bad points. I think it being an 'attempt to shove another princess down our throats' is invalid as the Disney Princess merchandise line hadn't even been considered then.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Your opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedway
    I love Pocahontas, I really do. I think the artwork is beautiful - some of the backgrounds are so detailed, and I really like the music as well. Listen With Your Heart sends shivers down my spine - but I can understand the bad points. I think it being an 'attempt to shove another princess down our throats' is invalid as the Disney Princess merchandise line hadn't even been considered then.
    I am not saying that the music was bad... I am saying that it is NOT musical comedy, it is more introspective... and I don't know if it is a Popular choice for an animation film...

    And we did get a "princess" like marketing line attached to the film... I know because my cousin wanted to be Pocahontas...

    The story was kinda wierd... Again, the good guys where the bad guys... And I am not certian that this post colonial - historical theory is easily understood for kids...
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  13. #13

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    Re: Your opinions...

    There were many things I liked about "Pocahontas," including the art and the music, but I could not abide by the heavy-handed historical revisionism of the film. Not trying to start a controversy, but I think alot of people were turned off by that.
    "I'm working on changing Hollywood...at the studio that fired me twice."
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  14. #14

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    Re: Your opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    Actually I thought what went wrong was artistic mistakes...

    Pocahontas was problematised by a more introspective score. I didn't think the team of Menken and Shwarts was a good compotation... Steven Shwarts is way too intro spective a lyracist to put together a snappy score for a movie... He is definately not Tim Rice or Howard Ashman... I think you would have been better off taking a chance on a newer lesser known Lyracist... Try and find the next Larson (Rent)... Menkin is talented, but he is only as good as his lyracist... Because he responds well to story and words...

    Emperor's New Groove had serious plot line and dramatic developement problems that made people get lost in the story... It was David Spade run amok... (parts where very funny thou... But the plot line suffered!!!)

    Hercules was problemitised by the Gospel Music Score that I think was in congruant with the material - so Christians saw it as being blasphimous... As well as a canned story line with plot devices simular to Little Mermaid... (And despite what people think it wasn't the first animated film based on mythology. The Black Cauldron is based on celtic mythology... That has always bugged me...)

    Treasure Planet just didn't do it... merging SciFi and Pirates... Genras you think would go together, but they don't.... Pirate films are a tricky genra anyway... Hidden Treasure stories are a hard sell..

    I am not going into Atlantis or even worse Home on the RANGE. (shutter)

    Brother Bear was ok, but what made Lion King better was it was an integrated musical... And the target audiance I think the story appealed to was very small... Basically Micheal Eisner when he was at summer camp...

    The bright spot in all of this was Lilo and Stitch... Which surprised me, they got something right by making something original... It was reflected in the Box Office as well...
    Brother Bear exposed more of that true Disney emotion as did Lilo and Stitch. I just thought Hercules animation was unattractive. It has a good feeling to it though. Huntchback was just too dark of a story. Atlantis was good, but they were trying too hard and the story was a bit too complicated(not a fan of the animation either). Emporer's New Groove was fun and different, but without the humor, it wouldn't have been much. Home on the Range was just plain awful. I actually thought Treasure Planet was a good movie but your right, it may have been the pirates and space themes that just didn't move it. I thought Tarzan was beautifully done with the story and animation especailly. Loved Tarzan, especailly the mother-to-son story: very touching and makes me teary when baby Tarzan and mother are laying in the night gazing at the butterflies. Pochantas music was lovely, and the story and emotions were bold and strong. I always have thought that Beauty and the Beast and the Little Mermaid were Disney at it's best. Romantic, but moving and grand at the same time.

  15. #15

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    Re: Your opinions...

    I think "Tarzan" was a near masterpiece, but it was almost sunk by Rosie O'Donnell's awful and grating voice work as Terk.
    "I'm working on changing Hollywood...at the studio that fired me twice."
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