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  1. #31

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    Something like this was talked about in the other thread, so I'll say it again here. Where would we draw the line? Should there be one shaft in the ToT for people who don't know what to expect? Should they offer a non spinning teacup for those who don't like spinning but what to go on the ride? Should they make it so that for a certain span of time, no music is played in Small World? Mission: Space is fine how it is. It is not Disney's fault that people don't use common sense & think that just because it is in Disney, doesn't mean it's not intense. They already set the mood long before you enter the ride itself that it's very intense.
    While I agree that Disney is not at fault and the warning signs in the queue are sufficient, I think the comparison with other rides is not perfectly accurate. The other rides, ToT included, are not so intense that prior medical conditions have resulted in the death of two riders in one year shortly after disembarking. If your defense of M:S were 100% correct, we'd be hearing about similar deaths every year after people ride Screamin', Maliboomer, ToT...

  2. #32

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by edtsch
    While I agree that Disney is not at fault and the warning signs in the queue are sufficient, I think the comparison with other rides is not perfectly accurate. The other rides, ToT included, are not so intense that prior medical conditions have resulted in the death of two riders in one year shortly after disembarking. If your defense of M:S were 100% correct, we'd be hearing about similar deaths every year after people ride Screamin', Maliboomer, ToT...
    Look, last year's death was not caused by Mission: Space. That is a fact. The child could have died anywhere. That is a fact. The fact that he did so on MS is just a coincidence. The current case is unknown until the autopsy goes on, but I'd bet anything that it was a pre-existing condition (one that could have been caused by any ride with a "do not ride if you have ____ health conditions" warning).
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  3. #33

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    Oh please, in California someone stubs their toe getting out of the ride & the ride is shut for 5 months. Disney World has never opened a ride before that wasn't safe. Can the same be said for Disneyland? Do I need to mention the one.... no two...... no three accidents on BTMRR (not to mention other recent problems)?
    I am not going to argue with you Mike... Because there no arguing with you on ANYTHING...

    Disney world never could wait to open a ride before an investigation is complete, and sends out it's spin doctors to say that it was anything but safe...

    Truth is, (and I have proof on this...) most accedents at Disney World do not get reported to ANYONE because they DONT have to report it to any state agency, let alone the press...

    I think the media attention that is on Disneyland and the California parks actually is more intense and less controlled by Disney - as proven by the California Screamin accedent...

    5 months to fix the computer system on California Screaming insured a safer ride...

    Disney World could blanket the media saying it was operator error, when it could be the ride system, and say that it is operating normally... WITHOUT an investigation.

    Prove me wrong, Mike...
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  4. #34

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    I believe that the California Parks are far safer because the state would not allow the ride to function untill a full investigation can occur, and some resolution could be made...
    But what resolutions can be made if it isn't the rides fault?? If the only answer is to slow down/change the ride entirely, then they will have to waste tons of time and money to fix it, and I don't think they want to do that during the 50th.

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  5. #35

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    No one has ever died as a result of Mission: Space (not including the current situation since we don't know autopsy results yet). The only other person that died had a rare pre-existing condition in which he could have died virtually anywhere.
    Not exactly true, is it? Would this person have died driving a car or walking through a supermarket? Even with the death of the 4 year old boy, A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT took place:

    Person gets on ride with pre existing condition.
    Condition is triggered by intense ride.
    PERSON DIES AS A DIRECT RESULT of riding Mission Space WITH a pre existing condition.

    Pre existing condition, yes. But the ride CLEARLY triggered both episodes.

    Using semantics won't mean diddly squat to the media, lawyers, the stockholders and eventually to the Disney board itself. One more death, inside of a year, and you can kiss Mission Space goodbye. It may already be too late. (How do YOU know what is being talked about among the suits? You think Disney WANTS this publicity? No matter how WE spin this, the MEDIA is telling everyone that DISNEY'S RIDE KILLED TWO PEOPLE INSIDE OF ONE YEAR!! How do you talk your way out of that if you're Bob Iger???)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    Mission: Space cost over $100m to make (not including marketing). With Epcot's birthday around the corner, it would take a death in which the ride itself caused the death & was unfixable.
    But the ride itself DID cause the death of these two individuals. Yes, they had conditions, but the ride itself triggered the death. And guess what? When person number 3 is followed by four and five...maybe tomorrow, maybe five years from now, Disney could be spending at LEAST that amount in law suits.

    Bottom line: What do we have to compare this to? Thunder Mountain? The Columbia line killing the tourist? Both of these were mechanical and could be fixed. Or so we hope...

    But THIS! They're telling us the ride is operating SAFELY. Except for people with PRE-EXISTING conditions that they may or may not know about. So let's say one in 100,000 stands a 50% chance of this ride killing them. If this ride develops a reputation for killing guests with unknown ailments and there is no way to screen for stuff like this.....NOW WHAT? Leave the ride open and only hope to have 15 more guests killed accidentally in the next 10 years?

    I'm not talking about people who have high blood pressure who are on heart medication. Or people who have epilepsy. I'm talking about a hypothetical 8 year old kid who has NO idea that he has a heart problem. He gets on the ride, and it's all over.

    Could this happen anywhere? Yes.

    Has it? Who has the stats on Six Flags or Knotts? And after those deaths...if it is not due to a mechanical reason, do the rides open up the next day?

    Don't get me wrong. I LOVED that ride.

    But I've got a very bad feeling about this.....

  6. #36

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by localdisnyfan
    Not exactly true, is it? Would this person have died driving a car or walking through a supermarket? Even with the death of the 4 year old boy, A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT took place:

    Person gets on ride with pre existing condition.
    Condition is triggered by intense ride.
    PERSON DIES AS A DIRECT RESULT of riding Mission Space WITH a pre existing condition.

    Pre existing condition, yes. But the ride CLEARLY triggered both episodes.

    .....
    Ummmmm....Have you ever heard of people walking that collapse from pre exisiting conditions? My step dad was walking up the stairs one day, and he falls. Turns out his arteries are like 80% clogged. Had he have been walking around the supermarket, he totally could have been a gonner.

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  7. #37

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Well how about we all move to MA where we are FORCED to have health care. Hell if it was the law to have it and I had to, you better bet that I would know everything about my body, inside and out. Maybe WDW should require a clean bill of health note from the doctor for everyone who enters the parks. You have to have it scanned at the biometric thing along with your fingers. COME ON! A 4 year old kid, heart condition or not could be scared to death on a ride like that. 49 year old lady, same thing. Stop blaming the ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

    Elsa's and Anna's
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  8. #38

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    Prove me wrong, Mike...
    Big Thunder mountain.... there was an accident, someone died. After months of DOSH investigations,etc, they reopened the ride which was then deamed "safe". A little while after, attraction has a minor crash. Once again, DOSH investigates, media overblows the story, etc. A while after, being deamed safe, the ride opens again. A very short while after that, the ride has a minor crash for the third time. Did California instpections help the ride? Weren't all three crashes the result of either faulty mechanics or operating error?

    Going back to Disney World, can you prove that Disney World has ever opened a ride that wasn't safe? I don't have to prove anything because I'm laying down all the facts. You can be paranoid & say Disney doesn't have to say anything, but if anything ever did happen (even a minor crash), we'd know about it. There are too many people on Disney forums at the parks for us not to. Many Cast Members are on the Disney boards, and with the Internet, word-of-mouth is extremely fast. So mechanics-wise, I definitely feel WDW has a much better success rate than Disneyland, even though Disney is the one inspecting the rides.

    Not exactly true, is it? Would this person have died driving a car or walking through a supermarket? Even with the death of the 4 year old boy, A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT took place:

    Person gets on ride with pre existing condition.
    Condition is triggered by intense ride.
    PERSON DIES AS A DIRECT RESULT of riding Mission Space WITH a pre existing condition.

    Pre existing condition, yes. But the ride CLEARLY triggered both episodes.
    I'm not going to speak about the current case because we really don't know anything about it. About the little boy though, yes he died on Mission:Space. I'm not going to argue that. However, Mission:Space did not cause his death. He had a rare heart problem that could have been agrevated anywhere. M:S was not the cause of his death.

    you can kiss Mission Space goodbye
    If Disney did not deem MS safe, they would not have reopened it.

    Bottom line: What do we have to compare this to? Thunder Mountain? The Columbia line killing the tourist? Both of these were mechanical and could be fixed. Or so we hope...
    Exactly. Those were mechanical/operator problems & could be fixed. This however (just like any other thrill ride) was the result of conditions. It is not Disney's fault that people don't read the warnings (and yes, I realize the first death was nobody's fault).

    If this ride develops a reputation for killing guests with unknown ailments and there is no way to screen for stuff like this.....NOW WHAT?
    It's called visiting a doctor and getting health tests. If someone has a condition, it can be screened for. You are confusing "unknown ailments" with "unknowable ailments."

    Leave the ride open and only hope to have 15 more guests killed accidentally in the next 10 years?
    People with these problems could die on a plane. Should all planes be grounded? They can die while playing a sport? Should sports be cancelled. Sometimes, people have to take responsibility of their own body into their own hands.

    I'm not talking about people who have high blood pressure who are on heart medication. Or people who have epilepsy. I'm talking about a hypothetical 8 year old kid who has NO idea that he has a heart problem. He gets on the ride, and it's all over.
    Guess what? That kid could have died anywhere. Say that 8-year old get's on a plane, and it's all over. As Nephythys & others have been saying, death happens. When your number is called, that's it. People die for unfair reasons, but that doesn't mean you must go putting the blame somewhere.

    Has it?
    If a kid dies on a plane, will it make the news? NO. If they die playing a sport, will it make the news? NO. People die every day & it goes unreported. Know why? The media could give a flying rat's *** whether or not some kid died doing these things. Sad to say, but it's true. The media only reports stories which will increase their viewership (like accidents at Disney).
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  9. #39

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfreeek
    Ummmmm....Have you ever heard of people walking that collapse from pre exisiting conditions? My step dad was walking up the stairs one day, and he falls. Turns out his arteries are like 80% clogged. Had he have been walking around the supermarket, he totally could have been a gonner.

    Ummmmm .....

    We can use hypotheticals all day long. But the truth is, that four year old boy WASN'T walking and just happened to fall over. He was on Mission Space and collapsed during the ride. Cause.....and.....effect. That poor kid had a bad heart, so he definitely should not have been on that ride. But there he was, and we all know what happened. To speculate that the kid could have had the same reaction before getting on the ride is beside the point. The episode happened DURING the ride.

    And to be honest, I see where you are coming from. If a person has a heart attack, did the ride CAUSE the heart attack, or would she have had a heart attack at a scary movie? And I am also aware that there are many other rides that are MUCH more intense than Mission Space.

    But this is two in a row to the media. Heart attack, brain aneurysm....I don't think this will matter to the media. The media will sift through the common reports of severe nausea and add them to these two deaths and declare that this ride is dangerous.

    My real question is....what do we have to compare this to? Is this a new record for theme park deaths? Two inside of one year on the same ride?

  10. #40

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Disneyfreeek... That is a bit of an over reaction really... Calm down, have some hot cocoa...

    Even if this was the case, Disney needs to wait for the investigation to complete... I am beginning to not believe their standard answer when someone gets injured on a ride at Disney World...
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  11. #41

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by localdisnyfan
    But the truth is, that four year old boy WASN'T walking and just happened to fall over. He was on Mission Space and collapsed during the ride.......The episode happened DURING the ride.
    Let me offer a situation and I want you to answer it without tying to get around it. We have a man who is in his 30s, looks very healthy & works out every day. He goes on a ride and dies. Autopsy results show that one of his arteries were clogged & he died because of that. Did he die because of the ride?

    The mere fact the boy was on MS and died was a coincidence. Any amount of stress, big or small, could have caused him to die. Is that fair? No, but it's not the rides fault.

    Even if this was the case, Disney needs to wait for the investigation to complete... I am beginning to not believe their standard answer when someone gets injured on a ride at Disney World...
    Why? Has Disney World ever given you a reason to believe their inspections weren't good enough? Has Disney World ever opened a ride before that wasn't safe?

    -Michael
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  12. #42

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    BTW, you can hear the 911 call on Orlando Sentinel's website. Glad to hear that the people on the phone acted very fast & didn't take long in sending the paramedics.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  13. #43

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Folks, please keep this discussion civil. The news forum is more strictly moderated than the others and no personal attacks of any kind will be tolerated. Any posts that are even borderline will be moved to the litter box. The discussion has been good so far, I am just asking everyone to keep to discussion of the news story and leave personal issues elsewhere. Thanks.
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  14. #44

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    Did California instpections help the ride? Weren't all three crashes the result of either faulty mechanics or operating error?
    Considering it hasn't had another incident since, I think they finally fixed the problem... Some of it had to do with the existing maintanence budget, I am sure...

    Going back to Disney World, can you prove that Disney World has ever opened a ride that wasn't safe? I don't have to prove anything because I'm laying down all the facts.
    When ever someone says they are laying down the facts I always remember the scene in So I Married an Axe Murderer

    "My Newspaper contains facts... Pleanty of facts... 'Pregnant Man Gives Birth.' That's a fact."

    Many Cast Members are on the Disney boards, and with the Internet, word-of-mouth is extremely fast. So mechanics-wise, I definitely feel WDW has a much better success rate than Disneyland, even though Disney is the one inspecting the rides.
    I can give you proof, but I am not willing to devuldge my source in public. But yeah, they are on this board... And yes, some events do not get reported...

    However, Mission:Space did not cause his death. He had a rare heart problem that could have been agrevated anywhere. M:S was not the cause of his death.
    He likely would not have died had he not ridden Mission Space given his condition. That is what is unfortunate... It is also why Disney needs to provide Due Dilligance for something like it not to happen again... but it looks like it did...

    If Disney did not deem MS safe, they would not have reopened it.
    Are you sure it's safe? Who said it was safe? Disney isn't saying it is safe... You have warning signs saying it's not safe for everyone...

    But still there is a reasonable expectation that you would be safe at a Disney theme park... That is the problem...
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  15. #45

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    He likely would not have died had he not ridden Mission Space given his condition.
    That's not true. To quote the medical examiner... "People with this condition are at risk for sudden death throughout their life due to abnormal electrical heart rhythms. This risk could be increased under physical or emotional stressful situations. This condition may also eventually lead to heart failure." IE, he could have died virtually anywhere.

    Considering it hasn't had another incident since, I think they finally fixed the problem...
    Not the point. The fact that 2 investigations (that lasted for many months) didn't fix the problem. Great job DOSH. California is so much safer.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

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