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  1. #46

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    That's not true. To quote the medical examiner... "People with this condition are at risk for sudden death throughout their life due to abnormal electrical heart rhythms. This risk could be increased under physical or emotional stressful situations. This condition may also eventually lead to heart failure." IE, he could have died virtually anywhere.
    But, he didn't say Mission Space was not a factor leading to death. I doubt that he could say that it was not...
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  2. #47

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Okay, you word something the wrong way ONE time and you get yelled at for it.

    I will correct myself.

    You have never heard of someone dying on Haunted Mansion either.

    There...happy?

    It doesn't change the fact that two people have died REGARDLESS of whose fault it is on a ride at WDW.

    Disney isn't going to just lay down and ignore that. It is still going to affect a persons opinion on it no matter how much you enjoy this ride.

    My point is, what is Disney going to do about it. Since no one here can answer that question, I am curious to see how this progresses.

  3. #48

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    My point is, what is Disney going to do about it. Since no one here can answer that question, I am curious to see how this progresses.
    To be honest? I don't think they are going to fix the ride...

    They are going to skirt it under the bed and hope it doesn't happen again...

    I hope I am wrong about this.... But I doubt it...
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  4. #49

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    Let me offer a situation and I want you to answer it without tying to get around it. We have a man who is in his 30s, looks very healthy & works out every day. He goes on a ride and dies. Autopsy results show that one of his arteries were clogged & he died because of that. Did he die because of the ride?
    AH....a challenge. My answer, without trying to get around it... ...is....

    Yes.

    If said ride puts 1G or more of added stress on the arteries, plus the adrenaline rush, fear factor, and the heart rate goes up and he dies with a heart attack. (Which I'm assuming would happen due to the clogged arteries.)

    If his heart rate rose BECAUSE of the ride, then yes...he DIED because of the ride. Put it this way: If the same guy died having sex (which I'm sure he would have preferred) his wife/girlfriend/person would not have KILLED him, but he would have died BECAUSE he was having sex with clogged arteries. Cause = Man having too good of a time with clogged arteries and heart rate goes through roof. Effect = Massive heart attack and he dies.

    HOWEVER....If the same guy were to simply walk on to the ride and fall over before it begins...then no. The ride would NOT have caused the death.

    I will admit that I am making the ASSUMPTION that the boy and perhaps this woman would still be walking around if this ride had not TRIGGERED a physical reaction. But because this particular ride involves G forces that people are not used to, the response RESULTING from this ride contributed to the reaction that led to these two individual's deaths.

    How about this: If this case turns out to be a heart attack, would you go as far as to say that going on Mission Space gave her a heart attack?

  5. #50

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    I will admit that I am making the ASSUMPTION that the boy and perhaps this woman would still be walking around if this ride had not TRIGGERED a physical reaction.
    Can't speak for the woman, and it's sad to say, but the boy probably would have died anyway (assuming his disease went undiagnosed throughout his life). Any physical or emotional stress could have killed him.

    How about this: If this case turns out to be a heart attack, would you go as far as to say that going on Mission Space gave her a heart attack?
    No, because if she had a heart attack, that means she had some heart health problems that are warned for many times in the building.

    If said ride puts 1G or more of added stress on the arteries, plus the adrenaline rush, fear factor, and the heart rate goes up and he dies with a heart attack. (Which I'm assuming would happen due to the clogged arteries.)
    I probably didn't word it correctly, but let me rephrase the question... They found that the man died because of the clogged artery and that he would have died wherever he was at that moment.

    To be honest? I don't think they are going to fix the ride...
    If it's not broken, they don't need to fix it.

    It is still going to affect a persons opinion on it no matter how much you enjoy this ride.
    But especially with this case, I doubt the average WDW guest will know. For half of the major news sources (like Foxnews), the article has yet to appear & for the other half (like CNN), the article got a very low-key spot. Most guests didn't know about the last death so I doubt many will know about this.
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  6. #51

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    If it's not broken, they don't need to fix it.
    That is the MO, you are correct... Doesn't change the fact that the ride isn't safe... So what do YOU do? Make it more safe or shut it down?

    Or do you risk more deaths and more law suits? Because they WILL happen... We know now it isn't a matter of how, it is a matter of when...
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  7. #52

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    That is the MO, you are correct...
    I'm probably acting real stupid now, but what is "MO"?

    Doesn't change the fact that the ride isn't safe... So what do YOU do? Make it more safe or shut it down?when...
    But barring the current accident (as we don't know the autopsy results yet), the ride is completely safe. The last accident was not the result of the ride. Most of the nausea cases are the result of people not following the rules. And protein spills are bound to happen on any ride that involves spinning.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  8. #53

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    But especially with this case, I doubt the average WDW guest will know. For half of the major news sources (like Foxnews), the article has yet to appear & for the other half (like CNN), the article got a very low-key spot. Most guests didn't know about the last death so I doubt many will know about this.
    Okay I can accept that, I guess because I'm local I am hearing more about it on television and in the papers.

  9. #54

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    At Disney, Mission: Space spurs most complaints

    From the Orlando Sentinel
    At Disney, Mission: Space spurs most complaints
    Even before a second tourist died this week, Mission: Space was emerging as Walt Disney World's most hazardous ride, with more than twice as many reported illnesses and injuries as any other Disney attraction.

    Tragedy struck the Epcot ride for the second time when Hiltrud Blümel, 49, of Schmitten, Germany, died Wednesday, a day after she fell ill following a spin on the spaceflight simulator. A 4-year-old boy, Daudi Bamuwamye, died in June after the ride.

    Blümel's death renewed questions about the safety of the $100 million attraction that simulates a rocket blastoff and landing.

    But plenty of people were eager to experience the ride, which reopened Thursday morning after an inspection late Wednesday by Disney and state officials. Many of the visitors did not know a tourist had died the day before.

    Alex Espinoza, 17, rode Mission: Space four times and wasn't worried.

    "My voice is destroyed from yelling all day," said Espinoza, who was on a trip with his high-school band from Ohio. "It was really, really fun. They warn you numerous times before you get on the ride. We even had a lady step out before we got on because she was just like, 'I can't do this.' "

    In addition to the two deaths in the past 10 months, 10 people have reported serious illnesses or injuries since the ride opened in the summer of 2003, according to reports Disney filed with the Florida Bureau of Fair Rides Inspections. That's the worst record of all the Disney attractions and doesn't include more than 130 other Mission: Space riders who sought medical attention, according to ambulance records.

    Second-worst were Space Mountain at Magic Kingdom and the wave pool at Typhoon Lagoon. Each had reported one death and four serious injuries or illnesses since 2003, according to state records.

    On Mission: Space, riders are met with 13 signs warning of motion sickness, dark and enclosed spaces and spinning.

    Just before people are loaded into the ride capsules, they are shown a video explaining the ride and are again given a chance to exit the line.

    All of the warning signs and the video are in English, though Epcot brochures are available in multiple languages at the park's entrance. The brochures briefly describe Mission: Space as the "most thrilling attraction in Disney history" and warn that it may cause motion sickness.

    "As with any thrill attraction, Mission: Space is not for all guests," said Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty.

    Prunty said Thursday that no changes have been made to the ride since the Pennsylvania boy's death last summer, and no further review is planned.

    There also has been no move to post the warning signs in different languages, she said, but those issues are often reviewed.

    A ride worker first called 911 to report Blumel's illness at 1:19 p.m. Tuesday, saying that "she seems pretty bad" but was alert. The ambulance arrived 12 minutes later, and she reached Florida Hospital Celebration Health at 2:04. She died Wednesday.

    The Orange County Medical Examiner is expected to perform an autopsy on Blumel today.

    Blümel's family asked Disney not to release any information, though Disney reportedly told state authorities that she may have suffered from high blood pressure and other health problems, according to one state source.

    Robert A. Samartin, a Tampa attorney representing Daudi's family, said their "hearts go out to the family" of Blümel.

    "They certainly understand how they can go from having a wonderful family vacation to just horror," Samartin said. "It's very tragic."

    Daudi's death was eventually attributed to a previously undetected heart condition.

    Since its start, Mission: Space has developed a troubling reputation for making some people sick. A few months after it opened, it became the only Disney ride offering motion-sickness bags.

    The nonfatal incidents reported to the state included three men and a woman who all complained of chest pains and one man who fainted.

    Still, millions of people have ridden Mission: Space in three years, and many rave about it as one of the park's top thrills.

    Not everyone who gets sick makes a formal complaint.

    Paul Borne, 57, a Norfolk, Mass., sales representative, didn't but said he wished he had, after getting sick following a Feb. 28 spin on Mission: Space.

    He said he left dizzy, then developed a bad headache that night. The next morning, on the plane home he got sick, tried to head for the lavatory and passed out in the aisle. The flight crew put him on oxygen. When he tried to get up later, he passed out again, and after they landed an ambulance took him straight to a hospital, he said.

    After two days of tests the doctors agreed with his assumption that the ride probably was to blame, he said.

    "The ride itself? It was wild. It was dizzy. They had puke bags. I would never have gotten on it if I knew it had puke bags. They give you warnings and stuff, but all the rides have warnings," Borne said. "This thing, they gotta close it down."

    Mission: Space uses centrifugal force, video and other special effects to make riders feel as if they are in a spaceship blasting off, traveling to Mars and landing. Riders experience four periods, of up to 20 seconds each, when the G-force ranges between 1.6 and 2.3. A G-force of 2 is twice that of gravity.

    Under Florida law, Walt Disney World, Universal Orlando, SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa Bay are responsible for their own ride safety, with no direct state oversight. Bureau of Fair Rides inspectors confer with the theme-park-ride officials annually but only inspect rides when invited.

    Terence McElroy, spokesman for the state bureau, described Wednesday night's inspection as "top to bottom."

    "Now understand, we don't regulate them. We're not experts on that ride. We don't routinely look at it. So their engineers and safety personnel and inspectors were the ones who actually did it. We did observe that. There did not appear to be anything, to us, that appeared to be out of the ordinary," McElroy said.

    Disney officials pride themselves on having what they consider the best ride engineers, inspectors and safety authorities in the country.

    However, that doesn't bring much comfort to advocates of public ride inspections such as Kathy Fackler, founder and president of an organization called SaferParks, which pushed for and got California oversight of theme-park-ride safety in 1999.

    "All we're asking for is someone who doesn't have huge liability to step in and conduct an independent investigation, and let the public know," she said.

    The lines for Mission: Space on Thursday -- in the midst of the busy Easter vacation season -- were much shorter than those at Epcot's other two big rides, Soarin' and Test Track.

    One family debated whether to go on.

    "We knew it was one of the most popular rides, and I heard about one person who died on it," said Darrell Lipski, who was vacationing from Peoria, Ill., with his wife, Lynette, and their three sons.

    Lynette Lipski added, "One person we know went on it and was sick all day."

    The couple were unsure whether they would let their family ride, especially their 7-year-old.

    "I don't think we want to put him on it," Lynette Lipski said.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  10. #55

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    I'm probably acting real stupid now, but what is "MO"?
    Sort for Modus Opperandi... Latin For "mode of operation."

    But barring the current accident (as we don't know the autopsy results yet), the ride is completely safe. The last accident was not the result of the ride. Most of the nausea cases are the result of people not following the rules. And protein spills are bound to happen on any ride that involves spinning.
    It doesn't matter, the ride is not safe... They put a warning on the ride... It is there for a reason... Even when you follow all the safety rules, the environmental contitions can cause illness and injury or in extreme cases (where there are medical conditions) death...

    Disney is saying, "Hey, let the buyer beware..." But from a legal perspective it is NEVER that easy, particularly in these types of cases...
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  11. #56

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Well, I'd never have known if it weren't for this site. There's been nothing in the newspapers, that I've seen, and I'm a news junkie.

    I'm having a hard time wrapping myself around (no pun intended) a "spinning motion simulator", never having seen the ride.

    To me a motion simulator is something like Soarin---which isn't very violent.

    For me, I have to actually visually see the danger. I can look at Screamin' ----eyeball it, and know it isn't something I want, or should be doing.

    You can visually look at Mali-boomer and know, with or without warning, that it's gonna be vigorous and violent (you can see that they don't start slowly----you are shot up out of nowhere without time to adjust---Maliboomer)

    I'm wondering if this ride.....in Florida is as visual as some of the others, where you can instinctively get visual clues,beforehand, to know it might not be right.

    You hear the words of a warning....but sometimes a picture and actually seeing the risks, in front of your face, makes a greater impact.

  12. #57

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Pisces
    I'm wondering if this ride.....in Florida is as visual as some of the others, where you can instinctively get visual clues,beforehand, to know it might not be right.

    You hear the words of a warning....but sometimes a picture and actually seeing the risks, in front of your face, makes a greater impact.
    There's nothing really visual they give except the whole concept of launching into space.

    But honestly, I don't see how they can make the impression any more. This ride has more warnings than any other ride on Disney property. There are signs, there are constant audio announcements and during the preshows, they state loud and clear it's an intense ride that contains spinning, enclosed dark spaces and loud noises (multiple times). It is hard to imagine the amount of warnings if you have never been there, but trust me, if someone gets to the ride itself without knowing that it is intense, they haven't been paying attention at all.

    I do agree in that there are little visual clues to what it is. But besides showing people that it is the same feeling as being blasted off into space, there's really nothing they can visually show.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by Pisces
    Well, I'd never have known if it weren't for this site. There's been nothing in the newspapers, that I've seen, and I'm a news junkie.

    I'm having a hard time wrapping myself around (no pun intended) a "spinning motion simulator", never having seen the ride.

    To me a motion simulator is something like Soarin---which isn't very violent.

    For me, I have to actually visually see the danger. I can look at Screamin' ----eyeball it, and know it isn't something I want, or should be doing.

    You can visually look at Mali-boomer and know, with or without warning, that it's gonna be vigorous and violent (you can see that they don't start slowly----you are shot up out of nowhere without time to adjust---Maliboomer)

    I'm wondering if this ride.....in Florida is as visual as some of the others, where you can instinctively get visual clues,beforehand, to know it might not be right.

    You hear the words of a warning....but sometimes a picture and actually seeing the risks, in front of your face, makes a greater impact.
    Good point. And actually, if you do not read or speak English, you might be in a world of trouble. There are warning signs everywhere, but after the little video that precedes the ride itself, you walk directly into one of the pods, or stations...or whatever they called them (this was 2.5 years ago) and you strap yourself in....standing up.

    We've all seen the rides at the fair where you stand in a circle and the thing flips up and you spin vertically. Those of us who get motion sick easily would know from LOOKING at the ride that it is not for them. But because LOOKING at Mission Space behind the scenes would ruin the illusion, you know only what you read or you can figure out from the short video that preceeds the ride.

    If it turns out that this lady did not read or speak English, they might want to look into having additional pamphlets nearby that describe the ride in detail in more languages than they have now...which might be three. I can't remember.

  14. #59

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by localdisnyfan
    There are warning signs everywhere, but after the little video that precedes the ride itself, you walk directly into one of the pods, or stations...or whatever they called them (this was 2.5 years ago) and you strap yourself in....standing up.
    When you go into the space pod, you are sitting down, not standing up. And you have a shoulder strap. That should be a sign to anyone, despite what language they speak, that this is an intense ride. And at this point, there is still the option to exit without riding.

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  15. #60

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    Re: Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space" - WFTV, 4/12/06

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDisneyInquisitor
    When you go into the space pod, you are sitting down, not standing up. And you have a shoulder strap. That should be a sign to anyone, despite what language they speak, that this is an intense ride. And at this point, there is still the option to exit without riding.

    -Michael
    Mission to Mars had seat belts... Not because of intensity... But because they didn't want people walking around the attraction when it is functioning and give the illusion of intensity...

    So, for those of us who have experianced Disney for quite some time previous... Having a sholder strap doesn't necisarly mean the ride is intense.
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