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  1. #16

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by SpokkerJones View Post
    Non-Disney, yes. Substandard, no. As far as roller coasters go Cedar Fair maintains some of the most technologically advanced roller coasters in the world. It's about roller coasters, not Disney quality dark rides.

    If in some bizzaro world Disney did purchase Cedar Fair, it would be ironic if they tore down the "substandard non-Disney like" rides and left DCA standing.
    Cedar Fair coasters are substandard compared to any and all Disney E-Ticket rides - regardless od whether they are coaster-based or not.. Even many of Disney's A & B tickets are superior. This is beacause of their multi-media technology, quality, immersive theming, and popularity.

    Granted, CF's off-the-shelf generic coasters are larger and more advanced than those of county fairs and traveling carnivals. Their qualty is pretty much identical to that of Six Flags, Paramount, and a few foreign amusement park companies. In fact, to visit one park is to visit them all because they each target the same built in audience - one that desires thrills, and couldn't give a rip about originality or theme (beyond the name of a particular ride).

    Speaking of monikers, Cedars Fair owns parks such as Worlds of Fun and Knott's Berry far. If CF were to be bought out by the Walt Disney Company, just think about how awkward and clunky the new names - Disney's Worlds of Fun - Disney's Berry Farm, or, even worse, Disney's Knott's Berry Farm.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMoose View Post
    Back when the Paramount Park's where for sale Disney was seen in the park looking around at them. If anyone buys Cedar Fair it should be Blackstone.
    Great! So, you agree with my thoughts in Post 8 that Blackstone would be the best candidate for purchasing Cedar Fair - should they desire to do so.

    The problem facing off-the-shelf, look alike thrill parks is that the general public is becoming more discerning. Real theme parks like Disney, Universal and eveb Busch/Sea World know that the nondescript thrill parks are afraid to have one of their cheapo parks within hundreds of miles of big name original competition.

    Knowing this, Disney, Universal and Busch/Sea World are beating the look alikes at their own game, by incorporating more thrill rides into their parks - and adding unique immersive theming. They are making the non-competitives eat their dust.

    This accounts for a large part of the reason they are having a hard time staying in business, and are constantly looking to sell to other buyers. Time has finally caught up with them. They can either go original and compete, or they can they can make the mistake of purchaing off-the-shelf for a shrinking built in audience - and lose their butt.
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  3. #18

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound View Post
    If they closed Great America - one of the two parks first built by J W Marriott in 1976, I will be VERY upset...

    By the way, CBS - Viacom distroyed the charm that park had... I am still mad about them removing the railroad and moving it to Gilroy's Bonfante Gardins... It actually has been downhill slide ever since Marriott (the hospitality giant that they are) sold the property...
    The train gave Marriottt's Great America character and charm a plenty. Plus, the train and the skyway were two of the two largest in scale non-thrill ride family attractions. Little was left for families after that other than a carousel, generic bumper cars, and a couple small scale water rides.

    A few kids rides have since been added, and a virtual theater - but the IMAX cinema is gone forever. Great America was more competitive under Marriott - but it was still a themeless, non-immersive park. Real theme parks such as Disney, Universal, and Bucsh Sea World are fast making the non-competitive, off-the-shelf thrill parks obsolete.

    Great America would be struggling in today's market, even if they were still owned, operated and managed by Marriott's.
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  4. #19

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    This would be the equivalent of Ronald McDonald becoming tied in with, and doing commercials for Bob's Big Boy.

    Forget about it.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior View Post
    Granted, CF's off-the-shelf generic coasters are larger and more advanced than those of county fairs and traveling carnivals. Their qualty is pretty much identical to that of Six Flags, Paramount, and a few foreign amusement park companies. In fact, to visit one park is to visit them all because they each target the same built in audience - one that desires thrills, and couldn't give a rip about originality or theme (beyond the name of a particular ride).
    I'm going to have to disagree with you. I will say I have only been to Cedar Point, but to say they are only as good as Six Flags or Paramount. That's ridiculous. I have never been to a Six Flags or Paramount park that comes even close to Cedar Point.

    Here is my list of things that are better at Cedar Point than those otehr 2 chains.

    1. The coasters
    2. The employees are friendlier
    3. They get you on and off a coaster and the line moves.
    4. They don't just run one train. Even on slow days they have more than one going.
    5. Food Quality
    6. The park is much cleaner
    7. Better merchandise (I've never bought a souvenir at SF or a Paramount park, I have bought things at Cedar Point)
    8. Upkeep of attractions is much better
    9. Park has little if any graffiti.
    10. The rides are excellent. While they are not highly themed they are a lot of fun.
    11. There is a section of Cedar Point that is like a Frontierland. It is actually highly themed and it is in a part of the park that is all shady from trees. Its quite lovely.

    So IMHO, to compare Cedar Point to a Six Flags park or one of the ex-Paramount parks is silly. Cedar Point is what all of amusement parks (not theme parks) should aspire to be.

  6. #21

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonballer View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you. I will say I have only been to Cedar Point, but to say they are only as good as Six Flags or Paramount. That's ridiculous. I have never been to a Six Flags or Paramount park that comes even close to Cedar Point.

    Here is my list of things that are better at Cedar Point than those otehr 2 chains.

    1. The coasters
    2. The employees are friendlier
    3. They get you on and off a coaster and the line moves.
    4. They don't just run one train. Even on slow days they have more than one going.
    5. Food Quality
    6. The park is much cleaner
    7. Better merchandise (I've never bought a souvenir at SF or a Paramount park, I have bought things at Cedar Point)
    8. Upkeep of attractions is much better
    9. Park has little if any graffiti.
    10. The rides are excellent. While they are not highly themed they are a lot of fun.
    11. There is a section of Cedar Point that is like a Frontierland. It is actually highly themed and it is in a part of the park that is all shady from trees. Its quite lovely.

    So IMHO, to compare Cedar Point to a Six Flags park or one of the ex-Paramount parks is silly. Cedar Point is what all of amusement parks (not theme parks) should aspire to be.
    My opinion is cetainly not so inflexible that I will niether budge nor concede a point. Service and maintainance are extremely important components of the theme park / amusement park industry. If Cedar Fair's Great America and Knott's Berry Farm are examples of the entire chain, then I would agree, Mellonballer. I love Knott's Soak City, too. These parks are indeed more service oriented than any other thrill park company that I have seen, by and large.

    In my book, the only Six Flags park worth attending is Discovery Kingdom. This is because they have a unique little wildlife/aquatic theme going on.

    Nevertheless, if Cedar Fair is to survive a changing market, they will have to adapt to survive. This has always been the name of the game in the free enterprise system. When video stores first came on the scene years ago, the market became saturated with little single propriatorship "mom and pop" stores. Major chains such as blockbuster and Hollywood Video eventually outcompeted most everybody else, and pretty much control the market today.

    By the same token, I hope that Cedar Fair will remain profitable, and gradually invest it's capital in attractions and immersive infrastuctural surroundings that will raise it to the competitive level of an actual theme park. Perhaps, Six Flags will adapt too - although I have more confidence in Cedar Fair (due to your influence). Again, service and maintainance are crucial in most all business undertakings.

    I've pretty much lost all hope for Paramount. Funeral will be next Saturday
    at 10am.
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 07-12-2007 at 09:11 PM.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Doesn't Daniel "I Own The Washington Redskins" Snyder own Six Flags and in turn own Great America?

  8. #23

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseinphilly View Post
    Doesn't Daniel "I Own The Washington Redskins" Snyder own Six Flags and in turn own Great America?
    He would id Six Flags owned Great America. But, they sold it to Cedar Fair.

    Poor Great America has gone from Mariott's to Paramount to Six Flag's to Cedar Fair. She's slept with everybody in town, and will likely never have a lasting marraige.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior View Post
    My opinion is cetainly not so inflexible that I will niether budge or concede a point. Service and maintainance are extremely important components of the theme park / amusement park industry. If Cedar Fair's Great America and Knott's Berry Farm are examples of the entire chain, then I would agree, Mellonballer. I love Knott's Soak City, too. These parks are indeed more service oriented than any other thrill park company that I have seen, by and large.

    In my book, the only Six Flags park worth attending is Discovery Kingdom. This is beacause they have a unique little wildlife/aquatic theme going on.

    Nevertheless, if Cedar Fair is to survive a changing market, they will have to adapt to survive. This has always been the name of the game in the free enterprise system. When video stores first came on the scene years ago, the market became saturated with little single propriatorship "mom and pop" stores. Major chains such as blockbuster and Hollywood Video eventually outcompeted most everybody else, and pretty much control the market today.

    By the same token, I hope that Cedar Fair will remain profitable, and gradually invest it's capital in attractions and immersive infrastuctural surroundings that will raise it to the competitive level of an actual theme park. Perhaps, Six Flags will adapt too - although I have more confidence in Cedar Fair (due to your influence). Again, service and maintainance are crucial in most all business undertakings.

    I've pretty much lost all hope for Paramount. Funeral will be next Saturday
    at 10am.
    Thanks for listening. Its always a good debate with you. ANyways
    I have to agree about Six Flags. The only one I have been to that I would consider going back to is Discovery Kingdom and that's because I have relatives in the area so I really only have to pay for park entry.

    I should point out that I have not been to Great America in Santa Clara since 2001, when Paramount owned it and it was a hellhole then. The coasters stunk for the most park. The only one I really liked was one of the oldest The Demon. Next time I'm in the bay area I plan to skip it and go to Beach Boardwalk instead.

    Another thing I miss is the Triple Wheel, the 3 armed ferris wheel they used to have. I'd rather ride that than Invertigo. I miss Willard's Whizzer too. Its the first coaster I ever rode.

    One thing I am puzzled by though. Did Six Flags actually own the Great America in Santa Clara? They have owned the one that Marriot built in Gurnee, Illinois, but I can't find anything that says they owned the CA one. From what I can see Marriott owned the park, then sold it to the city, who sold it to Paramount, who sold it to Cedar Fair. Still Great America in CA has definitely gone around.

    I think Cedar Point will survive, but it would not surprise me if Cedar Fair goes thourgh a big change. And to be honest, if any of their parks were to close I would look at Great America in Santa Clara, mostly because the real estate is so valuable. If they can close Astroworld in Houston, they can close Great America. Granted it was not Cedar Fair that closed it, but the point is that tradition cannot save a park (but it helps).
    Last edited by Melonballer; 07-12-2007 at 08:57 PM.

  10. #25

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseinphilly View Post
    Doesn't Daniel "I Own The Washington Redskins" Snyder own Six Flags and in turn own Great America?
    They own the Great America in Gurnee Illinois, which was the sister park to the one in Santa Clara, CA. From what I can find, it doesn't look like Six Flags ever owned the CA Great America, but I may be wrong.

  11. #26

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonballer View Post
    They own the Great America in Gurnee Illinois, which was the sister park to the one in Santa Clara, CA. From what I can find, it doesn't look like Six Flags ever owned the CA Great America, but I may be wrong.
    I don't have documented proof, but I remember Six Flags being added to the moniker - and how odd it felt when Marine World became a Six Flags park.

    Cool thing is that when I purchased a season's pass a few year's back, it served as a pass to both Marine world and Magic Mountain - and California water parks owned by the company as well.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    no
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  13. #28

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Gracie View Post
    no
    si
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  14. #29

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    I just did a check of Google, and Cedar Fair owns Great America in Santa Clara, while Six Flags owns Great America outside Chicago.

    Argument settled.

    Also, Cedar Fair owns all the old Paramount parks.

  15. #30

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    Re: Should Disney Buy Cedar Fair? - Motley Fool article

    Here is the thing about what happened to the Great America in Santa Clara... Granted it wasn't extremely immersive, in terms of "density" of that immersion, but the structures that where used made the park very compelling... Be it the scaled down light house in Yankie Harbor, the Tlinget motif of raven murals in Yukon... It actually had a theme... Now it seems as if it is no longer "America" - When Viacom added an AUSTRALIAN themed water park, I knew it was done for...
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