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  1. #16

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. The film is not mean spirited or off putting in the slightest, and any supposedly "off-putting" act portrayed in it is no more brutal or severe than pushing wicked witches off cliffs, having them turn into terrifying dragons and set on fire, or having noble kings and fathers murderously trampled by herds of fleeing wildebeests. Sure, it is a bit more witty and edgy than standard Disney fare, but that is precisely why it is so unique and timeless. Disney is of course known for its lovey, mushy tender heart style as seen in Snow White, Bambi, Sleeping Beauty and others, but it was the daringness of the company to produce something so out of left field and against the common grain that allowed Disney to remain the trend setter that is always had been, and sadly isn't anymore. If the company still had the cajones to innovate like they did with Roger Rabbit and be the catalyst for positive paradigm shifts then the company wouldn't be so stagnant in the area it pioneered (animation) and the public wouldn't be subjected to such tripe as Chicken Little, Open Range or Brother Bear. Who Framed Roger Rabbit is and always will be one of Disney's greatest masterpieces and while placing it amongst standard classics such as those previously mentioned is akin to stuffing a square peg into a round hole, it nevertheless deserves to be placed on equal footing with them.
    Within the confines of a cartoon world, an animator can create whatever reality he/she wants as long as it works within that environment. So yes, wicked witches plummet to their deaths and heirs to the throne suffer Shakespearean tragedies. Likewise, coyotes can fall into canyons and ducks can be shot full of holes without any long term ill-effects. It's not mean-spirited because it's part of the reality of that world.

    In Roger Rabbit, the line separating cartoon artifice and the real world is crossed repeatedly, and suddenly the rules of both worlds are forced to coexist. Now Roger Rabbit getting whacked in the head (stars, birds) isn't nearly as funny. Toons are abused in the real world for the entertainment of humans. And when Eddie Valiant ventures into Toontown, what happens? After a cheery greeting, he crashes his car, is stalked by a crazed woman and becomes the butt of a cruel joke at the hands of Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse. Funny in a cartoon world, maybe, but not when the victim is a real person.

    I remember reading an article around the time Roger Rabbit came out. The writer was very critical of the movie, likening Toontown to the experience of black entertainers in the 1930s and '40s (segregated, abused by the Hollywood establishment, tolerated only as long as they entertained white audiences). While I'm certain it wasn't the intent of the filmmakers to portray Toontown this way, the fact that an effective racist analogy could even be made is one more reason I dislike the movie.

    Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a fine technical achievement, but the meanness and cruelty of the story does it in.

  2. #17

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    In Roger Rabbit, the line separating cartoon artifice and the real world is crossed repeatedly, and suddenly the rules of both worlds are forced to coexist.
    Which is the root of its brilliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    Now Roger Rabbit getting whacked in the head (stars, birds) isn't nearly as funny.
    Sure it is. It maybe didn’t tickle your funny bone, but it did for countless others.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    Toons are abused in the real world for the entertainment of humans.
    So? They’re cartoons.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    And when Eddie Valiant ventures into Toontown, what happens? After a cheery greeting, he crashes his car, is stalked by a crazed woman and becomes the butt of a cruel joke at the hands of Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse. Funny in a cartoon world, maybe, but not when the victim is a real person.
    It was this very juxtaposition of a human entering a cartoon world and experiencing, “good” and “bad,” the pitfalls of said world that, again, made up the root of this film’s brilliance. And again, sure it was funny. I laughed my a$$ off.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneytim View Post
    I remember reading an article around the time Roger Rabbit came out. The writer was very critical of the movie, likening Toontown to the experience of black entertainers in the 1930s and '40s (segregated, abused by the Hollywood establishment, tolerated only as long as they entertained white audiences).
    This is nothing more than the same pseudo-intellectualist over-analyzation that occurs in almost every college classroom with almost every possible topic. Instead of taking anything at face value, these tenuous-at-best parallels are drawn so that “great thinkers” can display their mental muscle in having figured out the “underlying messages” and “societal significance” of something which is, in reality, entirely innocuous. It all amounts to nothing more than a grand Rorschach test where some self loving intellectual is able to portray themselves as the Übermensch for successfully inferring the true, grand meaning of a work which in reality is nothing more than a big blotchy ink stain and some squiggles. Who Framed Roger Rabbit is nothing more than a fun, zany film depicting a fantasy world where cartoons come alive and interact with humans. And, if nothing else, it bestowed upon us the beauty and wonder that is Jessica Rabbit. For that alone this film is worthy of the title "Masterpiece."

  3. #18

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    I'll have to side with Jazzman here and many other Roger Rabbit supporters. It's not a mean spirited film. It's showing the realities of how a toon world would actually exist with the real. Cartoons cannot die so they are treated as poorly as they will take it. Toons... are also created by humans so they owe a lot of their existence to entertain them. (of course... the story is that toons can die afterall with The Dip, a method used to clean animation cels for re-use; and dieing of laughter too)

    But you also see how the toons can also have the last laugh as Bongo the Gorilla throws valiant out of the Ink & Paint Club.


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  4. #19

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    I fell in love with Roger Rabbit in the opening short of the movie ~
    Absolutely Brilliant! One of THE BEST shorts in the history of
    animation ~ And then the movie goes on to show us 'toons in the
    real world, as they have never appeared before. STUNNING
    Special Effects ~ one of THE best in movie history! With the props,
    and the shading and other effects done on the traditionally done
    'toons, this movie combined the two worlds better than any other.

    The music, fits the era, and even uses The Carousel Broke Down,
    a standard 'toon tune, but the music does fall short of Great. It's
    good, just not GREAT. The storyline is a little dark, more along
    the lines of the most recent "Batman" trilogy, But then again, the
    Wizard of Oz has it's dark moments too. Adding to the mix, the
    unparalleled agreements between Disney & Warner Brothers to have
    Mickey and Bugs, Donald and Daffy on screen at the same time,
    really makes this a movie that is in a class of its own.

    Even when comparring it to other movies that try to mix traditional animation
    with Live action, such as Walt's own Alice shorts, Three Caballeros, Song of
    the South, Mary Poppins, and Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon,
    Cool World, Monkeybone, Space Jam, Looney Tunes Back in Action, NONE
    have come close to mixing the Toon World and the Real World as successfully
    as Roger Rabbit. Although RR doesn't have the great songs like we have in
    Song of the South, or Mary Poppins, RR is just as groundbreaking as either
    of those two movies.

  5. #20

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Of course Roger Rabbit is a classic. It was the first film to have characters from many different companies even though they were rivals. It was the last time that Mel Blanc (Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Tweety, Sylvester) and Mae Questel (Betty Boop, Olive Oyl) who I admire both very much, played their respective characters. and it finally brought attention to animation history.

  6. #21

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    I believe everyone in here has already declared as to why and how the film Who Framed Roger Rabbit is most definitely a classic and a landmark in animation history, so I won't repeat the same things over again.

    Who Framed Roger Rabbit has most definitely been a favorite film of mine ever since I was eight years old. The characters and the way the animation was incorporated into the film is simply magical. Sure we had the Alice comedies and Song of the South but those shorts/films were done far differently...even though I consider those to be extremely important landmarks in film history as well. Who Framed Roger Rabbit did something very differently and I will always admire it for just that.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Classic.

    Certainly not the typical Disney film, but an achievement on so many levels, and so much fun.

  8. #23

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    To me this film is a classic hands down, it shattered what you can do with live action combined with animation and NO other film can come even close to it.

    As for the "meaness and cruelty" of the story, I feel it's quite normal compared to many other Disney films. Because the Villians do pull off a good amount of meaness and cruelty, I certianly can list them but in the end the good guys win.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    i love roger rabbit and it is a classic it is part of disney. Yeah I wish They would show the movie as well.

  10. #25

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    It is a Disney classic.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    If you want to get technical, it isn't even Disney, it's Touchstone.

    My personal feeling is as good as it is -- and I was saying the only person who could make it was Richard Williams in the mid-'80s, wnen my friends were passing it around -- it is not consonant with other films considered "Disney Classics," and goes in the also-ran category with "Tron," "The Three Caballeros" and "Bon Voyage."

    My opinion.

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  12. #27

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by tod View Post
    If you want to get technical, it isn't even Disney, it's Touchstone.

    My personal feeling is as good as it is -- and I was saying the only person who could make it was Richard Williams in the mid-'80s, wnen my friends were passing it around -- it is not consonant with other films considered "Disney Classics," and goes in the also-ran category with "Tron," "The Three Caballeros" and "Bon Voyage."

    My opinion.

    --t

    If you want to get real technical, Disney created Touchstone for their films geared more towards the adult audience.


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  13. #28

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    If you want to get real technical, Disney created Touchstone for their films geared more towards the adult audience.
    Agreed. Disney is Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures. Now we just need to welcome back Roger to the Disney family. Disney shopping.com is getting a good start with new items and pins with Roger and Jessica.
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  14. #29

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    I think Roger got the ball rolling in terms of the new golden age, but it's still IMO, underrated. I also think the division between Toons and humans is representative of Hollywood's perception of animation. Animation has never truly been considered an art form unlike Live action movies.

  15. #30

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    Re: Roger Rabbit, Disney Classic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    If you want to get real technical, Disney created Touchstone for their films geared more towards the adult audience.
    I knew that. In fact, I knew that when they were trying to figure out what to call the new grown-up division back in the early '80s when "Never Cry Wolf" took a dump and they decided the name "Walt Disney" was a liablilty in some markets.

    Now that we have established, yet again, that the WHOLE POINT of "Touchstone" was to ESTABLISH SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM "DISNEY" -- a fact I really didn't think had to be elucidated on a Disney board -- we now face the question of whether the film "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" is a Disney classic.

    My point that it "isn't even Disney" is relevant, because it is harder-edged and raunchier than a "Disney" film.

    I still say no.

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