The Dark Knight - UK Rating problem

[GhostHost2]

Originally Posted by Angie_Duke

Alot of PG-13 films in America get usually get PG ratings here in Canada (including the ones you mentioned GhoostHoost2, plus thee Pirates trilogy). Guess the system is slightly less flawed here.

I see the Canadian ratings on the back of DVD boxes and they tend to be more fair and accurate than American ratings.

One of the big problems with the PG and PG-13 ratings in America, is that after PG-13 was created, the PG rating basically became the G rating of the pre 1984 days. Films such as Lilo and Stitch, Happy Feet, Kung Fu Panda, Enchanted, and Over the Hedge were rated PG, whereas the animated classic, The Secret of Nimh (to name just one example) made in the early 80s had blood, lots of peril and action, and a use of the word 'damn' and was only rated G. Those films I just mentioned have far, far less potential to offend than The Secret of Nimh does. Occasionally, a movie is rated G nowdays, but the difference between G and PG is very, very thin now. Some PIXAR films that get the G rating would likely get a PG (for stuff like peril and thematic elements) if the MPAA wasn't pro-PIXAR for some reason.

In conclusion, the PG-13 didn't really add another degree to the ratings system, it just caused G rated films to be PG, and PG films to be PG-13.

Also, many films want a PG-13 rating because it is the most profitable. With a film like Superman Returns, they figure they can get the teen audiences who are sometimes scared away by a PG rating, while at the same time not losing the family audience.

[nathan detroit]

I was pleased that I did not take NDJnr to see it. The violence was less of an issue to me - it was more the intensity of some scenes. The BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) claims that the film includes 'sustained threat' - so we were warned!

(And I thought it was 20 minutes too long - sue me!)

[sailerm]

PG-13 has become the catch all rating in the US. Many films that I feel should have been rated R, for language violence or sexuality have squeaked by by a PG-13.

I my opinion, the PG-13 rating should be eliminated, but it won't, because a PG-13 means bigger potential for money by not restricting those under 17. So even if Dark Night received an R by the MPAA. It would have been editted to get a PG-13.

In fact some producers/directors will submit a cut of a film they know will get an NC-17 rating, or an R, just so they can cut back a little to get the rating the really want. Pulp fiction comes to mind. Tarantino knew that he was headed into NC-17 land with it(the kiss of commercial death to a film)because of the frank sexual dialog and violence. So he added gratioutus violence (close up shot of kids head being blown off) that he knew he would cut out later to secure the R rating.

[nathan detroit]

It seems strange that America only has 3 different certificates while we in Britain have 6 main ones (12A was introduced most recently starting with The Bourne Itentity - this means anyone can see it but under 12s must be with an adult).

I have heard that an R rating in America is almost the kiss of death to a movie as many people avoid them. This makes the PG-13 rating very attractive to movie makers. In Britain the 18 certificate is used moderately frequently and does not seem to effect the performance of these movies. Saying this, since the addition of 12A, most movies are getting this rating particularly the 'blockbusters'. This certificate was given to Dark Knight, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Hellboy 2 and Indy.

The 12A rating has proven to be a good catch-all for any movie that would appeal to younger audiences but may prove somewhat unsuitable. I remember Gremlins getting a 15 rating (this was before 12A and 12) even though much of the merchandising was aimed at kids.

For an insight into British film classification visit the BBFC website. Use the search function to find a film and then select it. A very detailed report will then appear.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/

As an example here is their opinion on Indy (12A): -

SPOILERS ALERT!

INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL is the fourth instalment in the popular 'Indiana Jones' series. It shows the archeologist-adventurer, played by Harrison Ford, race against Russians to seek out mystical crystal skulls that hold the secrets to an ancient civilisation. The film was passed '12A' for moderate action violence and scary scenes.

There are two scary sequences in particular that were felt to be too prolonged and intense to be acceptable at the 'PG' level. The first sees a Russian soldier consumed by a swarm of large ants who cover him from head to toe and then drag him underground into their nest. The second sees an army scientist consumed by flames that begin in her eyes sockets and quickly grow to take over her entire body. Although unacceptable at 'PG' both sequences were felt to be acceptable as examples of 'sustained moderate threat and menace' in line with the BBFC's '12A' Guidelines. There are some further scary scenes set in burial chambers, with sight of mummified remains, and a scene of threat in which a character trapped in quicksand is rescued by grasping onto a snake.

There are several scenes involving actionviolence as Indy battles with the Russian soldiers, with a number of heavy blows being exchanged - one character is seen with a bloody mouth after being punched. Furthermore, the character of Mutt, a 1950s-style Teddy Boy, carries with him a flick-knife which is focussed upon throughout the film. The BBFC's Guidelines at 'PG' do not permit the 'glamorisation of realistic or easily accessible weapons', and it was felt that Mutt's fixation with his knife was sufficiently focussed upon to be better placed at '12A.'

[MagicWDI]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

It seems strange that America only has 3 different certificates while we in Britain have 6 main ones (12A was introduced most recently starting with The Bourne Itentity - this means anyone can see it but under 12s must be with an adult).

I have heard that an R rating in America is almost the kiss of death to a movie as many people avoid them. This makes the PG-13 rating very attractive to movie makers. In Britain the 18 certificate is used moderately frequently and does not seem to effect the performance of these movies. Saying this, since the addition of 12A, most movies are getting this rating particularly the 'blockbusters'. This certificate was given to Dark Knight, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Hellboy 2 and Indy.

This really isn't entirely true. There are actually 5 different ratings that can be certified by the Motion Pictures Association of America. These ratings are G, PG, PG-13, R, and NC-17.

And I think you may be confusing R with NC-17 or perhaps have been misinformed about the rating system here in the USA. NC-17 is usually the rating studios do not want their movies baring since it cuts off anyone under the age of 18; no if, ands or buts. A studio will only strive for a PG-13 rating if that film is targeted toward teens or young adults. Otherwise studios have no problem creating movies expecting an R rating.

Many films baring the R rating have gone on to be very successful. There is a trend of that right now with the recent "raunchy" comedies, such as Step Brothers, Pineapple Express, and Tropic Thunder, all baring the R rating. As a matter of fact, Tropic Thunder is the nation's number one movie at the box office the past two weekends as this is posted. It actually knocked off The Dark Knight for the first time since the big black bat was released. Sex and the City (rated R) also opened number one at the box office and is expected to be in talks for a sequel due to its success. All three Matrix films are some of the top grossing R rated films, and they were hugely successful at the box office. The Passion of the Christ happens to be the number one R rated film grossing just over $370 million in the USA. The R rating doesn't stop the people from seeing these films. However the NC-17 rating usually does, as people usually see these films as sometimes going too far in content matter, whether it be sexual or in violence, usually the former.

PG-13 may be the most popular rating for studios since the rating bares no restriction but rather a suggestion toward parents. However, there are still many successful R rated movies released every year. The R rating may restrict some of its viewers, but not enough to where many studios still distribute many films expecting to be rated R.

[GhostHost2]

Originally Posted by MagicWDI

This really isn't entirely true. There are actually 5 different ratings that can be certified by the Motion Pictures Association of America. These ratings are G, PG, PG-13, R, and NC-17.

I think what NathanDetriot meant was that the MPAA really only uses 3 ratings (PG, PG-13, and R) 99.99% of the time, whereas the BBFC actually uses all of their ratings regularly.

[nathan detroit]

Originally Posted by GhostHost2

I think what NathanDetriot meant was that the MPAA really only uses 3 ratings (PG, PG-13, and R) 99.99% of the time, whereas the BBFC actually uses all of their ratings regularly.

I did although I also got a little muddled between R and NC-17. My point is though that although NC-17 may be the 'kiss of death' in America, the similarly targeted 18 in Britain is frequently used and rarely a problem. However, our 12A (our version of your PG-13) is becoming the most common certificate although I think a lot of this is to do with the way that films are going at the moment - mainly aimed at teenagers upwards (most comic book movies for example).
Interestingly, after a bad experience at a 12A film (the POW scenes in Iron Man) NDJnr refuses to go and see any 12A movies any more. He is 6 and loves movies.

[Scorchio]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

I did although I also got a little muddled between R and NC-17. My point is though that although NC-17 may be the 'kiss of death' in America, the similarly targeted 18 in Britain is frequently used and rarely a problem. However, our 12A (our version of your PG-13) is becoming the most common certificate although I think a lot of this is to do with the way that films are going at the moment - mainly aimed at teenagers upwards (most comic book movies for example).
Interestingly, after a bad experience at a 12A film (the POW scenes in Iron Man) NDJnr refuses to go and see any 12A movies any more. He is 6 and loves movies.

I agree pretty much completely with what you've said here. The "no ifs ands or buts" approach of the 18 and 15 certificates in the UK have never been a bad thing for movies over her. For example, Sweeney Todd was incredibly popular, yet in the UK no-one under 18 is allowed to watch it at the cinema AT ALL. However, I have issues with the 12 A certificate. Personally, I'd say The Dark Knight was suitable for anyone over 12, and that's fine. BUT, since children under 12 are able to go and see it with an adult, this makes the 12A an inappropriate rating for Dark Knight, which is a shame. Were it just a 12 rating, and no-one under 12 could see it, then it'd be fine. But it's not, so there's a problem.

Now, can anyone confirm this. If I remember correctly, the 12A rating was added as a result of the Spiderman film. The 1st Spiderman film was rated 12 (initially) and there was uproar since so many younger spiderman fans couldn't see the film. Hence, 12A introduced. At least, that's my understanding of it...

Actually, along those lines, I feel it may be the comic book movies that are actually ruinging the ratings system. From what I've heard, it was a comic book film that caused 12A, and subsequent violent comic book films maintain the issue. The problem as I see it is that comic book films want to appeal to people who grew up with the cartoons/comics. These people are now adults, and want more adult content. BUT, the younger fans also want to see them, so 12A is the best (or worst) result.

[nathan detroit]

I seem to think that although Spiderman was the first comic book movie to get a 12A rating, the first actual 12A rating went to The Bourne Identity.
The first movie to gat a 12 rating (a big step considering until then it went from PG to a 15) was 1989's Batman.

[Scorchio]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

I seem to think that although Spiderman was the first comic book movie to get a 12A rating, the first actual 12A rating went to The Bourne Identity.
The first movie to gat a 12 rating (a big step considering until then it went from PG to a 15) was 1989's Batman.

That's odd, the DVD of that film has a 15 rating :s...perhaps it's uncut

[lazyboy97O]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

I did although I also got a little muddled between R and NC-17. My point is though that although NC-17 may be the 'kiss of death' in America, the similarly targeted 18 in Britain is frequently used and rarely a problem.

What you seem to be forgetting is that the ratings here in the states ratings are absolutely, 100% voluntary. A film aimed at an adult audience is going to get an R. X Rated films (now NC-17) became associated with pornography, that billed itself as "X". NC-17 is now considered by most to be pornographic. Unless that NC-17 film has material that minors cannot legally see, a theater does not have to restrict admission, this applies regardless of rating. Theaters only restrict admission based on rating because it is seen by most as good public relations, it has nothing to do with any laws.

[nathan detroit]

Originally Posted by lazyboy97O

What you seem to be forgetting is that the ratings here in the states ratings are absolutely, 100% voluntary. A film aimed at an adult audience is going to get an R. X Rated films (now NC-17) became associated with pornography, that billed itself as "X". NC-17 is now considered by most to be pornographic. Unless that NC-17 film has material that minors cannot legally see, a theater does not have to restrict admission, this applies regardless of rating. Theaters only restrict admission based on rating because it is seen by most as good public relations, it has nothing to do with any laws.

Its interesting that this is the case when the UK is seen as having much more relaxed censorship than the US (we have three major daily tabloid newspapers that regularly print pictures of topless female models!).
The BBFC is much maligned (not so much these days it seems) but seems to do a pretty good job. My concern is the slipping of most movie certificates into the 'catch all' 12A. My local cinema's timetable only states the certificates after all of the films except for one - The Dark Knight also contains the warning 'contains moderate violence and sustained threat'. Why would they feel that they would need to do that? Perhaps because the rating is too low?
I saw Hellboy II in a cinema where at least three people had brought toddlers. Toddlers FGS!